Ben and James Could Do Better
We all went to school. Ben and James forgot to leave. With a combined fifty years of experience in the world of secondary education, they should know better, they’ve certainly felt better, and they definitely could do better.
Ben and James Could Do Better
Two Teachers Try to Start a Podcast (Badly)
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Most podcasts lose you in the first five minutes. We’re trying not to.
We’re Ben and James — two secondary school staff attempting to make a podcast that’s actually worth your commute. To keep it on track, we structure each episode like a lesson: register, objective, “I do, we do, you do”… and then watch it fall apart.
In this episode, we follow a “how to start a podcast” guide and see what actually holds up when you’re recording for real. Expect questionable equipment decisions, DIY recording setups, and the reality of using things like the Zoom PodTrak P4 and Audacity without fully knowing what we’re doing.
Along the way, we get distracted by behaviour systems, phone calls home, staffroom culture, and the strange language of school “vision”.
If you work in education, think of it as informal CPD. If you don’t, it’s a behind-the-scenes look at what school actually feels like.
Cold Open And School Banter
SPEAKER_00What do you think of the intro then? Uh it's actually given me nightmares. Because I was in a band just like that. As as head of performing arts, do you think uh you'd be proud of that school orchestra? Um well, at least they had an orchestra, I suppose. In that sense, bet better than our school orchestra. Yes, just by existing. Absolutely.
SPEAKER_01By sheer dint of its own existence. Yeah. Anyway, probably best to get on with the show now. Yeah, absolutely. So, hello, and welcome to Ben and James Could Do Better. A journey through the world of secondary education from the perspective of a man called Ben and a different man called James. If you work in a secondary school, you can actually cite this as evidence of your ongoing continuous professional development. Except that unlike most CPD sessions, this won't be excruciatingly dull. As this is a podcast about schools, it only seems right that I call the register. Right. James? Well, yes, that's me. I'm here. Uh Ben. Present. Excellent. Right, that's that bit done. Yeah. It's going well, isn't it?
SPEAKER_00Brilliant. So uh how's your week been, Ben? Uh I'd say fair to middling is probably about where it's topped out for me.
A Lesson Objective On Podcasting
SPEAKER_01Excellent, excellent. Now it does say in the script that I've read vaguely all into that you're supposed to ask me about my week. So if you could do that, that'd be Well, I'm not really bothered about your week, but I will I will ask you, how's how's it been? Uh well, as you know, I'm the father of two young daughters. So mainly this week's been spent fighting my internal monologue regarding screen time. As a professional educator, I know that I need to reduce their screen time and encourage conversation. As a dad, I know that when I give them screen time, I can enjoy a beer in peace. Okay. So that's uh that's been my week. And most weeks, truthfully. Uh now it's fair to say we don't know much about making a podcast. Uh that's true. We have broadly agreed on a format for this one, which is that I, James. Yeah, you're James. I am James. I will deliver something of a lesson to you, Ben, possibly referencing the lesson framework. Well, I hope you don't expect me to be a well-behaved student. I will be using the rewards and consequences ladder, so uh just please remember this is the I do bit of the show. We will move on to the we do and the you do later. I don't want to issue you with a C one before we've even got going. No, no. They're waste of time, the C ones, anyway, I find. Well done. If you do focus during this bit, though, I might be able to give you a postcard. Oh. Look, I've even got one. It's from the Reading Museum gift shop, and it's a picture of the fake Bayo tapestry that they have on display there. So it's a lot to play for. Uh, but for this bit, I do have to insist on one voice. It's not I say you say, it's I say and you don't say anything. Well, that's gonna be almost impossible, but go on. Um, okay, so uh you've interrupted me there already, so I'm gonna have to write your name on the board. Today's lesson objective, or WALT, is how to make a podcast. Because we don't know how to do that, we're not subject experts, but like all non-specialists, I'm going to attempt this by being one page ahead of the class in the textbook. Okay, yeah, yeah, yeah. So as this is 26, I'm not using a textbook. I used the how to start a podcast, complete step-by-step guide off a website called BuzzSprout. Oh yeah. If you want to know about podcasts, then Buzz Sprout is the place to be. And I I quite like Sprouts, actually. I but I don't. I really don't. You don't either. And I wouldn't read a guide either. You wouldn't read. Well, you we've we've already established you probably wouldn't read anything. But Buzz uh Buzz Sprout is the place to go, and its claims on its website helped over 400,000 podcasters to start their shows. Oh, which is great. Yeah, it doesn't tell us how successful those shows were. Oh, whether they died after one episode. It doesn't tell us that. Um and as we've already started, so I don't think I do not want to be counted in Buzz Sprout statistics because we've started prior to reading their guidance. And we will finish. And we will finish, damn it. Um, so I'm gonna actively seek legal advice if I get even a hint that they're including us. And if their claim tomorrow is that they've uh helped 400,002 people uh start podcasts successfully, then I will be getting ChatGPT to draft me a strongly worded letter. Absolutely. But as I say, that doesn't mean we can afford to ignore their guidance. We need those ten steps because as the title of our podcast suggests, we could do better, and we're trying to do better. And I want us to do better. We just don't know what we're doing. That's the thing. So without further ado, here are those ten steps. It's not a dictation exercise, Ben. But do feel free to make notes in your exercise book as we go along. Yep. Pen poised? Pen poised. What colour should I use? Uh well, you're just making notes at this point, you're not uh it's not part of the four quarters marking policy.
SPEAKER_00So what even is that?
SPEAKER_01We've had it for years, and I still don't know what it is. Um well, it's certainly don't use red or purple at this stage. So black's okay. Black's fine. Right, absolutely fine. You can use black. Fire away. Okay, thank you for checking. That was a perfectly, there's no such thing as a stupid question. And that's certainly what I think there is. Step one on the Buzz Buzz Scrap guidance is uh develop a podcast concept. That's step one. Now I think we've done that. Yep. Our concept is two middle-aged men who work in a secondary school talking about working in a secondary school. Yeah, I appreciate we haven't actually managed that yet, but we're we're going to. This is only episode one. Yeah. Uh so I think we've we've nailed the developing the podcast concept. There were some subsections to that uh point one, but I'm I'm mindful of the time. So I'm gonna add some more detail in the briefing notes if that's okay.
SPEAKER_00We're acing it so far, so probably didn't even need this advice actually.
SPEAKER_01No, no, although I'm gonna have to uh write your name on the board again. Uh well you've written your name on the board, it's gonna be a tick now next to your name. Oh god, what's the heading towards a C2? Heading towards a C1. I'm I'm I'm I'm a generous backtracked, yeah. Interpreting the uh You're inconsistent. If you were to rewind, you'd see I threatened you with a C1, I didn't actually issue a C1. We're building to the C1. I don't want to use all the weapons I've got at my disposal all at once.
SPEAKER_00Supposed to be five to one reward to sanction anyway. And I you haven't added any or something.
Equipment Software And The Gilet Problem
SPEAKER_01You haven't decided any rewards yet. But we can play for an R1 if you manage to uh make some good notes. Um you're gonna have some deliberate practice later on, don't worry about that. Um anyway, it doesn't mention something about choosing a name. We've chosen the name Ben and James could do better, and I don't actually think we could have done better than that. Not with the name, anyway. Not with the name, with everything else, potentially. Right, anyway, on step two. We don't want to spend all day on step one. Step two, choose your podcast format. Now I didn't really understand this one because I thought podcast was the format, and we've chosen that. Yeah. So I'm gonna develop my answer to that by saying it's a podcast which features a man called Ben and another man called James. Step three. I think we've got that. We've got step two. Step three, uh, quite a key one, I think. Set up your podcast recording equipment. Ah now I think we've done that because otherwise we wouldn't be doing this. No, that's true, but I I realised Can you uh can you hear that? Yes, that's uh that's the the problematic Gile getting in the way of the microphone. So You didn't really, you know, you might well have been doing all this swatting up, but he didn't really give me any advice about this. Buzz Sprout didn't mention Giles, and I will feed that back to them in my uh strongly worded letter.
SPEAKER_00Well, look, this this is the staple workwear of a lot of trust employees across the country, you know. The old Gile underneath the Predominantly, I think you'll find that's the uh the senior team.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. I think really we're talking at a trust level, you know.
SPEAKER_00Well, that's what I said.
SPEAKER_01Yes. Oh, did you? Yeah, was I not listening? You I don't think you were. That's going down as a C1 for you, maybe. I don't think you have the power to issue C1s in this in this format.
SPEAKER_00Um maybe not, but I do, as any annoying student would in a class, have the ability to point out that that's maybe what you would get.
SPEAKER_01Perhaps, yes. And how unfair it is that you Before pointing out that I you'd like to issue me with a C1, I will do what all the teachers would do in that response and issue you with a C1. Just to remind you where the power balance lies. Anyway, uh step four, step four. Uh we've digressed again. Um step four, choose your podcast software. Right now, I actually feel that could have been incorporated in step three. I think Buzz Sprout has been a little bit lazy there. Um, and I think they've got a lot of audacity uh making that a separate step, but of course, so do we, Ben, because Audacity is our chosen software. Um and I I I've watched loads of YouTube videos on how to use it. I don't actually yet know how to use it. We'll we'll get to that at hopefully at some point in the future.
SPEAKER_00Uh but uh isn't this normally where you do some sort of plug for the software, but we haven't actually got anyone sponsoring us.
SPEAKER_01No, but if Audacity did want to sponsor us, and God knows why they would, they're perfectly successful without us. Basically the flagship software for doing this. But um uh but I do like the fact that I've been using YouTube videos to uh to train myself on this because we all love a YouTube video in a lesson plan, don't we? Absolutely we do, yeah. And we really love them in the old after school CPD sessions, yeah. Um nothing better than listening to those adverts that come up before because the person who's delivering the session has forgotten that's gonna happen and uh not factored that into the timing. Anyway, uh on to uh point five on Buzz Sprout's guide to how to make a podcast. And uh point five is record your first episode. Yeah. Ben, we're already on step five, so I think we're gonna make it to the extension activity at this rate. Oh, this is incredible. Except I'm gonna be honest with you at this point. Um, steps six to ten are a little bit advanced for where we're at at the moment. We can't edit this yet. We're coming to a screeching halt, are we? We are because we can't edit it because we haven't finished making it. Can't really edit it till it's done. So we can't do step six. Now, but you you know what you're doing with that software, don't you? No, no, I don't, I don't know. I've watched some YouTube videos. Oh. Um, so this may not make it past this. I was just sitting in front of some microphones. Um I think we did set them up beautifully. I do think we've managed that. That was uh that was step uh three. We've managed step three beautifully because I think that we've done that. Step six we can't do, we can't edit it yet. But at some point we'll get around to that. Um there was something about artwork. Um we we have done the artwork. Obviously, we can't display that to anyone at the moment because this is very much an audio format. Although I imagine if you are listening to this and you're not me or Ben, then you will have probably seen we will have done the artwork and that'll be visible when you've when you clicked on so that'll that will have happened. But basically, we can't do any of those steps or or evaluate our success on that pathway until we finish recording this episode.
SPEAKER_00No, well that makes some sense, thank you.
SPEAKER_01We can't finish recording this until we move from the I do into the you do.
SPEAKER_00Well, it's just struck me actually, there's a lot of I do in this.
Ben Takes Over The Conversation
SPEAKER_01Well, there is, but I am I am trying to set you up here. I'm trying to give we are so the I do that's me. Yeah, the you do, from my perspective, that's you, although you might view it as the I do. Um we've missed out the we do. We're gonna circle back to that. Uh, but now it is time for the unstructured part of the show. Yeah. Uh it's time for you, Ben, to say your bit. I'm just gonna set the digital timer on the whiteboard to make sure we have time for the plenary. Are you ready? Well, I don't know, to be honest. Let's find out, shall we, Ben? It's your time to shine.
SPEAKER_00Well, thank you, James. Well, and thanks for that, you know, absolutely inspiring session that you've you've given us. You are welcome. Uh we'll ignore the sanctions that have been handed out. But I mean don't ignore the sanctions, Ben.
SPEAKER_01They are very serious and will be logged accordingly.
SPEAKER_00But what happens to them afterwards, though? I don't really understand what happens. Look, I'll be making a phone call home. A phone call home. Yes. At some point. Goodness me. Thank goodness this wasn't around when I was in school. My mother would have Yeah, would have been the end of me, honestly. In my house, it wasn't about you know, you wait till your father gets home. It was quite progressive if you think about it. My dad used to say, You wait until I tell your mother. Right.
SPEAKER_01That is for for what 1980s, early nineties sort of Oh yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Yeah. You know, before we settle down to the curry with the bananas around the top of the the plate, which my mother thought was obviously some sort of say that's not a universal reference that people are gonna understand, isn't it? No, no, but no, but she they went through this sort of I don't know, 70s phase in the 80s and 90s. I don't know, it was anyway, dreadful. But no, my mother would not have appreciated a phone call home. No, no. And what would the consequences then have been? Um even worse sort of existence than the one I was uh Enjoying, I was gonna say at the time, yeah. But I didn't want a phone call home, and I was actually very good in school. I waited until the sixth form to start rebelling, and I really took off at university, let me tell you. Excellent. Goodness, mate. Anyway, but I mean, all of this uh podcast, I mean I've listened to probably thousands of podcasts, and I'm just terrified. I don't want us to be one of those ones that I switch off after sort of four to five minutes. Four to five, not forty-five. No, no, four to five minutes. I've started hundreds of podcasts and switched them off after four to five minutes, and I was trying as we were thinking about you know, formats and everything, to think about why did I switch off? And it was normally two middle-aged men wittering at each other.
SPEAKER_01Um well, I can see a fundamental flaw with our with our setup then. Um but no one else wanted to join us, it was literally the only people available to do this podcast, this specific podcast. Um, that that was me and you. Good news indeed.
SPEAKER_00Um the equipment. Um, I mean, how do you know what what to buy or what's gonna work? I mean, I I'm gonna know the first idea. What's a good microphone?
SPEAKER_01I think in our case it was a microphone that we could afford.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. I mean it's nice when you come in on it. I know.
Music Memories And A Nightmare Intro
SPEAKER_01Yeah, no, we haven't gone cheap. We're using the Zoom Pod Track 4. I think that's what it's called. Yeah, no, Pod Track P4. The Zoom Pod Track P4, described on on what I can't even remember. Maybe maybe Buzz Sprout, I don't know. Uh may have had enough plugins. They've had enough plugins. Well, you know, but I think uh described on whatever website I looked at as the Swiss Army knife of podcast recording. So that's what I was looking for. Uh something that that would well, it's uh look, we are being recorded. That much we are we've we're clear on. We we've we did a little demo, we we we did enough homework, not a lot of homework, but enough homework to do a little bit of a test recording to see if it worked before we did this actual recording, and it it did seem to work.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah, and I love the uh intro. I absolutely love the intro because that I say it gave me nightmares, it did both both both nice memories, but also nightmares because I'm I'm a musician. Or was a musician when I was at school, definitely. And uh, oh yes, I was very proud to lead the lower school orchestra. And we we had a huge school, two and a half thousand on roll. So it was a lower school orchestra, a lower school wind band, a lower school concert wind band. Uh, and then you you graduated to guess what, upper school uh orchestra and wind band and choir, and goodness knows. Well, yes, and I was I was in all of that. I was up there, up the front there, you know, really sort of leading these prestigious events, you know, held in the upper school hall and venues like that that people are no doubt very familiar with.
SPEAKER_01I mean, I can't relate at all because um I wasn't in any of those things. I um I failed the what's the what is the test they do when you uh to test your your tone deafness or not lack of it? Well, they just ask you, can you sing this note normally? No, there was a name. We had to listen to these notes on a oral perception? It was that, and it had a name, and everything began with a B. And I really I didn't know I was gonna talk about this, otherwise I would have found that out. You're thinking of back time in tune back in the primary school, you are boy. It was it was something we had to do in year seven, and we had to listen, and I, you know, and that was the only way you could get the free the free music lessons uh that the school offered. Our school was pretty good, they offered um free music lessons and and the loan of a uh you had a free school instrument. Yeah, see a lot of that's gone out the window.
SPEAKER_00Wonderful time in school with music and drama, wonderful time with it. I mean, people would say things like, you know, we've we got a gun in there and all that kind of stuff as I was carrying the violin to school, you know. You know, the old mafia jokes. I mean, it'd be good if we could get that calibre of material on this project. Oh, absolutely. If only uh yeah, and various other disparaging remarks uh for things that these days you would be held aloft and celebrated for.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Your sort of abilities in the arts are very much in, but back in those days in South Wales, definitely wasn't. But anyway, back to that sound. When you were in the lower school orchestra, uh it was great when you were in the upper school orchestra, sorry, because you had the the the head of music who was also the conductor of the youth orchestra, the county this and the county that. So once you moved past the sort of glories of year nine into year ten and went to upper school, and you were in these, you know, suddenly you'd arrived. But in the lower school, you had the old man who wasn't the head of department conducting, and we would do various concerts, if you could call them that, throughout the year. Um and I I do remember um uh he would be very nervous about these uh performances, and you'd you'd have a number of bars rest, you know, so you might have ba ba ba you know. And in that break, uh this particular teacher, God love him,'s gone before us, um, you'd get ba you know, which was it sounded like a sort of dodgy movie, but that was his nerves in the bar's rest because we were so bad with an orchestra. So didn't know what was gonna happen. You know, he was sort of taking his life in his hands for every bar rest of whether somebody would let the slide go on the trump trombone or you know, and these things would happen, yeah. All sorts, so yeah, that intro for me, absolutely fantastic. Um we've tried all sorts of places to record this. We've tried a disused drama studio, we've tried the back of camper van. Uh and now we've we've tried where we are now, which is a bit embarrassing. I don't know whether I want to go into it, but if we've started, there would be well we sort of looking at each other across a double bed.
Sanctions Hot Take And Podcast Vision
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah, that that is. But um that's not just I mean, that's if and I didn't get onto this in the guidance, but actually that is one of the recommendations for creating a uh an effective studio. What a bedroom. A bedroom or well, ideally, I mean we're not in that kind of terrain, but a walk-in wardrobe is even better. But a bedroom, because the soft furnishings apparently help reduce some of the unwanted noise.
SPEAKER_00So if you can't afford a studio, a Spotify studio. A bedroom is A bedroom's good. Yeah. I've got a bit of a thing about the whole sanctions thing, but I don't know whether I want to get into that. Well, my use of sanctions or generally the use of sanctions. Well, both really.
SPEAKER_01Well, I I'd say kind of, you know, don't keep your powder dry on the the general use of sanctions because that's a whole episode. We don't want to waste that. That's that's that's potentially that's material for using further down the line. We don't want to, you know No, no, no, no, fair enough.
SPEAKER_00But I I just would say that I think really good teachers don't need to use sanctions.
SPEAKER_01Yes, and I I know I that's controversial, and we haven't I'd like to drill down into that, I'd like to do a deep dive on that. But but uh to defend my use of sanctions in the first part, obviously I am playing the part, so to speak, of a of a teacher uh delivering a lesson. Now I'm not at any point professing to be a good teacher during that bit of the show. Um in real life, of course, I wouldn't deliver lessons anywhere. I mean, I wouldn't have done that level of preparation for starters. So I mean there's you know, there's absolutely no way I'd be I'd be delivering uh sanctions uh to such a level if someone interrupted me. I welcome the interruptions during normal. Well I do, I love the intro. It keeps it ticking along, doesn't it? Quite nicely.
SPEAKER_00When a cheek cheeky chappy or chapess interrupt the flow of stuff with something actually genuinely funny to say, or with a criticism. Sir, sir, this is boring. Hang on, hang on a minute, hang on a minute. You don't know what's round the corner in the we do.
SPEAKER_01That's uh I mean obviously we in your in your case that that's potentially a fair defence as well, because you obviously to perform in arts, there may well be something more interesting down the line. There's no upside for a math teacher. There's no upside for a math teacher. If they don't like where I've started, it's not getting better. No, it's not it's gonna it's gonna be more of the same, I'm afraid, guys.
SPEAKER_00So so yeah, we'll get back to that controversy uh at another time. But one thing I wanted to ask you, tell me while you're thinking lecturing me over here, you know, at the start of this inaugural podcast. Yeah. But I want to know what your vision, what's your vision for the podcast?
SPEAKER_01My vision for the podcast. Well, I I think it's about secondary education. It's delivered by people who work in secondary education because we do do that. I'd like to think that people who work in in any sector of education, primary or secondary. Secondary or tertiary or early years or even people who don't work in education because let's be honest, we all went to school, or we all should have done, will find something of value in this. And equally, I don't want them to be bored. No, no, no, no.
SPEAKER_00But and and I'm bored in education by you know the the talk of vision all the time. It often comes from trusts, and I'm I'm obviously not referring to our own, but you know, across the across the uh the country, no doubt the world, um, school proprietors, owners, trusts, whatever it is, you know, have to come up with a vision. It's usually because nobody can actually see what's happening, you know. So, what's the vision for Ben and James Could Do Better?
SPEAKER_01Um, well, largely that we we we will and could do better. Arguably than this. Um, we're gonna do better than this in the next episode, as long as we as long as we get to the end of lost the listener from the first. Well, yes. Uh the good news is at this stage, at the stage of the recording of the first episode, which isn't actually available for any consumption yet because we haven't you haven't finished recording it, we can't have lost any listeners yet. Uh, where we are now live, sat in this room, we we can't have lost any listeners. So that's the good news.
SPEAKER_00But the vision's got to be partly to sort of entertain people, educated people, edutain people who is that word?
SPEAKER_01Is that has that been used before? Have I just coined that phrase right now?
SPEAKER_00I think you've just coined it, and I think edutainment is there's enough jargon in teaching, but but what what I was gonna say was yes, we want uh you know our fellow, our colleague teachers to be tuning in and to be playing an active part at when we get to that point when they you know email in or even phone in, maybe in the future. That's what we want, but also everyone's been to school times.
SPEAKER_01I'm not sure the pod track P4 is gonna tolerate people phoning in. Well, we're gonna have to. There is a weird little setting on here that I think, but that's just someone we know is on the end of a phone that's already set up that we know about. So we could have a guest. Well, we could do that, but I don't think we can do phone in show.
SPEAKER_00We could do a WhatsApp pre-record. We could I don't you're I mean, you're I'm ahead of you, you're ahead of me. Well, that's because I've been envisioning. You've been visioning, that's or envisioning. I don't know. But but we want let me get back to it. You've had your turn. I I get it. Look, and that it that is that I I want it to be, you know, by teachers for teachers, but also for anybody. We've all been to school, everyone's been to school, it's a shared experience. I thought I said exactly that a few minutes ago. We might have done, but I perhaps I wasn't listening. No, no, no. In fairness, but I don't want it to be like visions in schools where people think they have literally reinvented the wheel by saying, you know, they want they want it to be student-centred or they want the child at the centre. Of course, the child's got to be at the centre in it in a school. I mean, what else should be at the centre, you know? But normally this is said, and this is the point I'm trying to make, uh, by a room full of adults talking about children without actually any real children present and involved in the discussion. That's a fallible. I don't want any children involved in this. No, I don't want any children involved in this discussion. That would be awful. It would be it would be awful.
SPEAKER_01They're not as funny as they think they are.
SPEAKER_00No, no, absolutely. As we heard earlier. They can absolutely uh but I think, yeah, so so so we're gonna develop that vision and we're gonna work with people to develop it. And we don't want it to sound like some of the rubbish I've heard. I I once uh worked at a school uh that was uh up the valleys in South Wales. We won't say uh where, but I I can't say where.
SPEAKER_01Let's just not hear this story.
SPEAKER_00Let's just say that um keeping the students in the classroom was uh was a struggle back in the 90s. Uh still was a particular road. Uh coaching them in off the field from the wacky backy in some cases was was uh a challenge. And their strap-line in this place with terrible results and outcomes, terrible teaching, you know. I just I suppose people are trying their best, but generally speaking, terrible was caring for others.
unknownRight.
SPEAKER_00It's a noble uh ambition, but one that was um uh to do with education, but also made absolutely no sense was in pursuit of excellence, which just made me think of uh chips or whatever it is on the motorbike, sort of pursuing uh breakneck speed excellence, which was which was making its way off into the sort of sunset, um with with two the by turbos going, you know. It it's just ridiculous. So I I think we've got to think for the next episode what goes beneath if you like the slogan, the strap line, what goes beneath Ben and James could do better? Is it two middle-aged men marking time in education? It's not the pursuit of excellence, I know that.
Bell Time Plenary And Sign Off
SPEAKER_01Um it's not caring for others either, although we do. Sometimes. Right. Well, that's uh we've I we've now uh time has moved on more rapidly than you might imagine. Wow. Uh so we've got to move from the the I well, we've moved from I do to you. Yes. We're gonna have to circle back to we do, but the we do bit really is just a it's a plenary. That's why I'm gonna call it a plenary. So I don't think plenary should be in the weedo, should it? No, no, it shouldn't be in the weedo. Let's forget the weedous. I don't know. You've also it's not is he dead? Gildenstone's dead. I don't know about Rose.
SPEAKER_00No, that's Tom Stopper. Right, it is. Anyway, this Gile's getting on my jokes. It's getting on mine at the time. I'm just looking at anyway. Shimmering and shinking, I don't know, whatever you call it.
SPEAKER_01Let's forget we do. Let's it's time for the plenary uh before we sign off.
SPEAKER_00Um I mean, I suppose the sign-off is we're signing off.
SPEAKER_01It's a joy to be talking to our listener. Now you can't say I I I object to the term listener there, but why? Because I can conceive of a world in which no one listens to this podcast. I can conceive of a world in which not many people listen to this podcast.
SPEAKER_00I don't want to conceive of it.
SPEAKER_01I can conceive of a world where lots of people listen to this podcast. What I cannot conceive of is a world in which one person and one person alone religiously listens to this podcast.
SPEAKER_00The loyalty of that one person. Absolutely. No, I can't envisage that either. Sir. Sir. Yes? The bell's just gone.
SPEAKER_01The bell is for me, not for you. Not that again. But in fairness, it does uh that does denote the end of this week's podcast.
SPEAKER_00And it is still said. It is still said.
SPEAKER_01The world over, isn't it? Even though there's often not a bell. I know. It's it's still time when the bell used to be. So it's whatever, it's 10 o'clock. Uh I know. The clock time, thank you. The clock is for me, not for you. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Frankly. That's for me to know. But the clock is currently telling us that we have uh not overstayed our welcome, but it's time to wrap things up. Um But it is your time, not mine, isn't it? Uh it's that you're wasting? No, it's your time that we're wasting. In fact, I I really feel quite strongly it's our listeners' time that we're wasting right now. Actually, that's absolutely. So it's time to sign off. We will be back soon, uh, conventionally, in a week or so, I'd imagine. Um, timetabled. Unless you're gorging this all at once. Unless, well, feel free to do so. If there's multiple episodes available, why not? Absolutely. Experience them all. Um, but that is the end of this this episode. Uh so I have been James. I have been Ben. And that was Ben and James Could Do Better. I think it's clear that we could. Bye bye. Bye bye.