Ben and James Could Do Better
We all went to school. Ben and James forgot to leave. With a combined fifty years of experience in the world of secondary education, they should know better, they’ve certainly felt better, and they definitely could do better.
Ben and James Could Do Better
The ‘Happy Teachers’ Guide to Primary vs Secondary
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A supply agency calls itself “the home of happy teachers” and publishes a six-point guide to the differences between primary and secondary schools. That alone is enough to get us started.
We pick apart the claims one by one — from generalist vs specialist teaching, to workload, planning, marking, and the idea that pastoral care somehow disappears after Year 6. What sounds neat on paper starts to fall apart quickly when you’ve actually worked in schools.
We also compare notes on the uncomfortable reality of crossing phases, including a parents’ evening that makes a secondary teacher realise how little we understand about primary routines, language, and expectations.
From there, we dig into transition, curriculum continuity, and the ongoing problem: everyone says primary and secondary should talk more, but nobody builds the time or structure to make it happen.
Along the way we end up asking why science is always in labs, why behaviour systems change so sharply, and why “rewards” in education go from stickers to postcards that may or may not mean anything.
If you work in education — or just enjoy hearing myths about schools get dismantled — this one’s for you.
Cold Open And Like Subscribe
SPEAKER_00So how do you think it's going then?
SPEAKER_01Well, I'm telling you now, I'm absolutely pumped, James. You're absolutely and that's good to hear. Yeah, I don't know what it means, but everyone says it these days, don't they, on TikTok videos, how pumped they are. They're either talking about being pumped or that something pops. I either of those words I I don't like, I don't subscribe to, but occasionally I've thought about using it. So I did use it just then.
SPEAKER_00If I'm to understand correctly and I'm I'm not on the socials, uh probably should be. Uh, but what you're saying is that you don't like and subscribe.
SPEAKER_01I don't like and subscribe.
SPEAKER_00Right. Good, good. Uh but we would like anyone listening to this to do both of those things, presumably. Yep. That's the that's that's a good thing. Our goal is ten subscribers, isn't it? If that would be a result, and if they could like and subscribe, I think that's the uh that's the general expectation we'd have of all listeners at this juncture. Uh how's your week been, Ben?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I'd say generally okay, apart from the inset session uh that we had the other evening that was cleverly rebranded as a practice clinic. Uh 55 minutes, I'm not sure I'll ever get back.
Who We Are And Why
SPEAKER_00But uh how's your week been? Well, I went to my uh daughter's parents' evening the other day, uh very vaguely relevant to the uh the episode we've got coming up, episode two. I don't want to ruin it, but uh just just to say that my daughter both well, one of my daughters, the elder of my two daughters, is primary school age, the younger hasn't even reached that milestone yet. Uh so it was a primary school parents' evening. And uh yeah, fundamentally I didn't understand anything that was going on at all. So how long have you been in the game? Well, exactly, and I think that brings us on to uh the topic of today. But before that, of course, we do need to do some sort of formal introduction. Yes. So welcome to episode two of Ben and James Could Do Better, a podcast about education delivered by two men who rarely stick to the lesson plan. I'm James, a special educational needs coordinator, which means I'm like a normal educational needs coordinator, but more special. I'm fairly clear that I'm here, but it's time for me to do a quick attendance check by calling the register. Thanks. Ben? Uh adsum.
SPEAKER_01I am present in Latin for those who I didn't know. Yeah, yeah. I could have guessed.
SPEAKER_00Uh anyway, we have a Ben. We have a Ben I didn't guess, no. We have a Ben and we have a James, and it remains undeniably true that we could do better. Um, while we do have high expectations of our listeners, we do promise never to set homework. So you don't have to have listened to episode one in order to enjoy episode two. But if you're really committed to achieving the best outcomes, you'll probably still benefit from listening to episode one at some point if you haven't already done so. And remember, there is a postcard for you if you put the effort in. This week's postcard is, as last week, from Reading. And it's a picture of the anatomically incorrect lion that stands proudly in Forbury Gardens. Oh, wonderful. Before we begin today's lesson, I'd like to do a quick low stakes retrieval exercise with Ben. Okay. Ben, what is the premise of this podcast?
SPEAKER_01Um, the premise of the podcast uh is to attract to us, to our stable, to our wheelhouse. That's what they say these days, don't they? Uh to our wheelhouse. Uh, those in the profession who want a bit of light relief, but also anybody, because we've all been to school.
SPEAKER_00And that's fabulous, and I I appreciate your answer. It's not the answer I was looking for. Oh, isn't it? No, no, I was hoping that you would in some point allude to the fact this this podcast is about secondary education.
SPEAKER_01Yes, it is, of course. But I'm I'm taking that as red as we're two sort of wizen-down secondary teachers. Don't take it as red.
SPEAKER_00Our listeners need this spelling out to them. What are you saying about them?
SPEAKER_01You're having to spell things out?
Setting Up Primary Vs Secondary
SPEAKER_00I will never be accused of the soft bigotry of low expectations. And I have high expectations of our listeners. Social mobility. This podcast is about secondary education. Well, it hasn't been yet, but it will be at some point. Um and it's not prime, but that's not primary education. That's a different thing. Secondary being our USP. Because there's already lots of podcasts about primary education, and they're far more established than us, and from what I could tell, they're pretty popular. But you can't just copy what they do. We don't know anything about primary schools. So I thought it might be good if today's episode, our lesson in inverted commas, was an exploration of the differences between UK primary schools and UK secondary schools. I'm not going to expand beyond the UK because absolutely outside of my uh comfort zone there. And there's not going to be any stereotypes, I hope. I imagine there will be. Um, and it's just if for no other reason than just to justify the existence of this podcast.
SPEAKER_01Yes.
SPEAKER_00Now, as ever, I'm going to need you to pay attention because there will be some cold calling and some checking for understanding. And I've got a jar of lollipop sticks at my disposal, and they've all got your name written on them. In order to fully explain the differences between the two sectors, it wouldn't be enough to rely on my knowledge. I think we've established that. Even if the differences do seem abundantly clear, even to the most ill-informed of laymen, um, one of our hooks that we established in episode one is that uh every week, or this being week two, I will turn to some online guidance in order to better understand how things work. Uh interestingly, though, there's not a lot of source material on the differences between primary schools and secondary schools, I think because people just know what they are. So I'm really uh I really had to dig deep for this. Um but I did find something, mainly by turning to the websites of supply teaching agencies. Um right. That seems like an unusual sort of uh source for material. Yes. Yeah. But I I went there. Now it's easy as an employee of an actual school to look down on supply staff because obviously they are generally teachers who can't seem to find a job in a sector in which demand far outstrips supply.
SPEAKER_01No, no, hang on a minute.
Six “Differences” From An Agency
SPEAKER_00We've both had to do our fair share of supply lessons. Uh yes, I've actually been a supply teacher um a number of times myself. So I don't want to alienate supply teachers because they sound like a potential listener base. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, I think it'd be very unwise of us. They do a lot of commuting and they're exactly the kind of people that might listen to this. So I want to be clear, I don't think of agency staff as less worthy than real teachers. But I'm not sure the agencies feel the same way. Uh, because I uh I turn to a few websites and and uh I'd say the information available for their their staff is uh at best patronizing, at worst insulting. The agency I'm referring to today is one called education. And um describes itself as the the home of happy teachers. Well, I I'm not saying that they're not. I've got I've got no evidence to refute this claim. No, it's a bold claim. I wonder if the reason all those teachers are happy is because they don't actually have jobs at the moment. They don't work in schools. However, if they are happy, they certainly can't be too bright. We're talking middle ability at best here and perhaps even low average on the cat data, because they if they do need this information, they don't even know the most basic things about how schools work. But we can't blame the materials available, we have to make the best of them. So uh it's a six-point guide on the differences between primary and secondary education. So, point one, the difference between primary and secondary, as shared by Mass Education on their website. I've got my pen out again. Excellent. Uh it's a black pen, yes? It is, yes. Do not pick up the red pen yet. That's that's for corrections. According to Mass, the number one difference that we need to know about primary schools as compared to secondary schools, is that primary schools are generally pitched at younger children and secondary schools cater for the older child. Now I Is that seriously written on that? That in more words than that, but yes, fundamentally, that's the guidance. Uh that's point one of six points. That so I I that's hence why my reference to the they can't think much of their their agency staff that they're sending out to schools because that's something before you even enter the profession, you you know, surely. But yeah. Nonetheless, there we go. That's point one. Key difference between primary and secondary, primary for younger children, secondary for older. If you didn't know that before, you know it now. Point two, uh, and this is entitled Teaching Structure and Specialization. A master's guidance here describes the primary teacher as more of a generalist who has to teach lots of different subjects to the same class, while a secondary teacher is a subject specialist who only teaches one subject but to lots of different groups. That's possibly an oversimplification, but again, it's it's hard to disagree with that overall sentiment. But uh I'm not sure who wouldn't know that. Point three, lesson planning and workload. Oh yeah. I'd like to be clear, I'm only referring to this online guidance. But claims that the multiple subject teaching of the primary generalist requires much more planning time than the secondary teacher, whereas the subject specialist secondary teacher spends less time planning but significantly more time marking. Uh it's controversial, it's almost certainly wrong. I would say almost certainly wrong. I think sitting on the fence here, but they're sitting rather awkwardly, and it's a fence made of barbed wire. Uh point four on the six-point list. Uh classroom management and behaviour. Now I know this is a big one for you. The plot thickens here seems to be completely off the fence, and it's explicitly stating that classroom management in primary requires a nurturing approach, whereas behaviour in secondary is more challenging and requires more of an authoritarian approach. Absolutely nonsense. It's almost as if this was written by someone who's never actually been to a school of any description. Let alone talked.
SPEAKER_01No, neither primary or secondary. Um I don't think they've had a university education department as sort of uh academic partners on this uh piece of work.
Workload Myths And Behaviour Reality
SPEAKER_00I would say, I mean, it's there's there's no time to to do this now, but if you were if you were in your own time, wanted to do a bit of extracurricular work, going to visit my website, not just look at look at everything on that website. It is absolutely it's a gold mine of just just you could entertain yourself for hours on some of the advice that's and I'm sure they provide cracking supplies at the home happy ones, happy ones, so yeah. Well, that's good. Right, so uh point five we got up to, hadn't we? Point five, pastoral responsibilities and student support. Uh and again they point to some key differences. So in primary, pastoral care is deeply embedded and very much about emotional and social support, uh, which is of course firmly jettisoned when we get to the world of secondary. Of course. When academic mentoring and guidance take centre stage, which to be fair does reflect my understanding that primary age children don't do any kind of learning, whilst the uh more academically focused teenagers that we work with are famously balanced when it comes to emotions. Point six career progression and opportunities. Now, this probably would be different, wouldn't it? So some key differences here. In primary, um, once you've spent your time in the classroom, you might advance to a role such as Senko, deputy head, or even head teacher. Whereas in secondary, my advice is that opportunities are more along the lines of Senko, deputy head or possibly head teacher. Um, I mean, my my my interesting take on that was that Senko is viewed as career progression, because I've often found it as a something of a career cul-de-sac. It does offer a summary overall, uh, and I'm gonna read that verbatim from the website. Some of the what I've said for was paraphrasing. So it says um which sector is right for you? Choose primary teaching if you enjoy working with younger children and fostering early learning, you like teaching multiple subjects and being a generalist, you want to develop strong long-term relationships with a single class. Don't choose primary though if you don't like those things. Instead, choose secondary. Uh, choose secondary if you're passionate about a specific subject and want to specialise. Uh, choose secondary if you enjoy working with older students and preparing them for exams and careers. And choose secondary if you can balance authority and mentorship in a more structured environment. They offer some final thoughts as well. Again, their words, not mine. Both primary and secondary teaching offer unique rewards and challenges. The best choice depends on your personality, teaching style, and professional goals. And what you've qualified in, I mean I'd say not irrelevant. Whichever path you choose, the impact you make on students will be invaluable. So, some inspirational words to finish off. Oh, yeah, yeah. And we we can we can buy that. And can I remind you again, they are the home of happy teachers? Yeah. But I'd like some different insights now. I'd like some insights from a man called Ben. Can you improve on Matt's contribution to the uh differences between primary and secondary?
SPEAKER_01For a start, look, let's get cracking and um lance the boil on workload. It doesn't matter what level you're working in, whether it's early years, primary, secondary, sixth form, workload is overwhelming. It doesn't matter if you're doing the job properly, it's an all-consuming well beyond 1265 hours job.
SPEAKER_00What I would say categorically is that primary school teachers do more planning than either you or I.
SPEAKER_01Yes, but that's a different matter.
SPEAKER_00That's uh that's uh but uh but I've worked with many secondary colleagues who put in an awful lot of time in preparation, and at the same time, I take issue with the idea that that uh that secondary teachers are doing all the marking.
SPEAKER_01Because I mean well, I'm not seeing too many bags of marking going home from the other thing you get from a lot of secondary teachers is uh I was up all night doing the marking. Yeah. No, you weren't. You had a stack of books on your lap, you had a chat with the kids, you you made tea, nothing wrong with any of this, by the way. You sat down to watch some telly, you marked a book, then you had a packet of peanuts and whatever it was, and dealt with the dog, then you marked another book, and then you stretched it out until half past eleven when you fell asleep on the sofa. That's not marking all night, is it? But anyway, first of all, let's go back to my list. That revolution, uh that revelation, sorry, that that in primary you teach younger children, and in secondary you teach older children. I mean, it just needs a few seconds to to just let that wisdom sink in, does that? Absolutely, that was fantastic.
SPEAKER_00I mean, it certainly explains why the uh the people have been sitting in front of me all these years in the classrooms I've been in haven't been. The young the young children that I thought they should be.
SPEAKER_01I mean, I've I think I was in the wrong school. But anyway, this this idea, there's an element of truth in point two about the generalists versus the specialists, but that's that's a bit like you know, sort of damning the primaries with the with the faint praise of oh, they they do all this sort of generalist stuff. I'm I'm sure. Well, I know there are a lot of primary school teachers who are math specialists or language specialists or phonics specialists or early years specialists or whatever it is. So that's just that is also a specialism. So yeah, I think you could win an argument either way to say, you know, primary is more difficult, more challenging in lots of ways. And I'm not sitting on the bench, it's true. Secondary, yes, if you're teaching an A-level group and they're bright, you have to be much brighter than them. Yes, being one page or one chapter, if you're really lucky ahead of them in the book, ain't gonna cut it, is it? But I think you know, that sort of generalist specialist thing that did make me laugh. The workload load of nonsense. Uh the idea that that you know the sort of behavioural issues sort of sort of filter out into the background and it's all about academic mentoring. Is that what you said? Uh that's that's right. That's what uh well not what I said, to be clear. These are not my views, but and these people operating it. Behaviour management is challenging all the way through school.
SPEAKER_00I mean I would say in defence, uh what's nice in that. Well, but they don't need to defend it. It's a weak defence. Um if you go on their website, and you should, uh as I say, hours of entertainment, uh there's uh You can meet the you can meet the team and there's there's pictures of the the various team and they they little little anecdotes about why they've got into what they do. Not one of them's been a teacher, so that's you know. I don't think they wrote the website because uh there's I think I think AI has contributed heavily to the writing of the website. And if you there's a video, there's a video on uh of uh somebody you know sharing what's all about, and it's it's one of the worst examples I've ever seen of an AI generated person talking as if they're a real person, and it's it's like sort of watching a kind of computer animated movie from the sort of late 90s, that that kind of calibre.
SPEAKER_01When have we ever found in our jobs that having an authoritative approach with those students is going to absolutely get us where we need to?
SPEAKER_00I mean, quite quite the contrary. Uh what I would say also is in terms of the the pastoral uh side of things and just generally dealing with the emotions of students, there's obviously quite a lot of that happens in secondary, and we've we've got uh whole parts of the school that are designed for that. But I would agree that I wouldn't in any way swap places with a primary school teacher in having to deal with that sort of stuff with a banger sector.
Why Schools Do Not Talk
SPEAKER_01But I what I would say about primary, which is true, is that the teacher uh in the primary school is often deity, aren't they? When you're young, I remember looking up to my primary school teachers, you know, Mrs. Barton, Mrs. Smith, uh Deglois Nowith Primary School in uh in Witchurch and Cardiff, uh seeing them as deity. You know, if they told me the sky was green, you know, neon green, I I'm I'm writing it down in my exercise book. If Mrs. Smith had said, follow me into this burning building, I've got a sticker book, I would have I'd have gone in, I would have gone in. But you know, some uh teachers in the secondary school you're asking them you know, let's call him Brian. If Brian says the sky's blue, the kid at the back saying, What source are you using for that? Or where did he get that from? Well, my brother says it's actually a simulation, so who are you to judge? You know, this the a lot of the teachers are different, they have different pressures, the kids are different, the age is different, everything's different. This comparison, it drives me mad in education, whether I was a teacher or a headteacher. There is this general stereotype that a lot of primary school teachers will say, we've built them up to this standard, and what the hell did you lot do with them when they got into year seven and eight? They did nothing, their handwriting's gone to pot. Yes, you know, um, and there's an element of truth that um, you know, I mean, it's kind of perhaps there's a bit of a babyish approach from some of us in year seven, but uh it's just different, isn't it? So the the primary school teachers said we've bet we've built them up, they got to this standard, they were achieving level, whatever it was, and this and that and the other. Now I met him in the street, Tommy, and he's forgotten how to spell his name, you know, and what are you doing with it? There's a little bit of that stereotype around, and but then on the secondary school side, it's all this they've overinflated the grades. Oh, yes. What were they doing with them? Um, you know. So I just think it's beyond it. If this podcast can do one thing, let's add it to the mission statement, shall we? We haven't got a mission statement. No, I know we haven't, but um, we were thinking let's make a mission statement. Yeah, you know, we let's let's break down some of these these barriers.
SPEAKER_00It's nonsense. Primary and secondary. We I I actually and I think you may have been there, I don't know. We sat through a CPD event recently where the keynote speaker was Yes, we did. We sat through discussing the uh the problems with the it was a curriculum-based talk.
SPEAKER_01Why don't we talk to each other?
SPEAKER_00Why don't we talk to each other? That was it. Um one of the issues being that what primary school teachers are teaching children is absolutely fine, you know, it's good. I'm not saying there's anything wrong with the content, and what secondary teachers are teaching is fine, and there's something, but that they don't necessarily tally up particularly well. So what's been taught history, I think, was it wasn't it? It was it was religio uh religious education he was talking about, wasn't he? Yeah, yeah, and uh the topics he was trying to teach at uh A level hadn't been covered earlier, and it would have been good if those students had a bit more of a grounding. But because he worked in an all-through school, he was also teaching primary, and he himself was not teaching the topics.
SPEAKER_01That's right.
SPEAKER_00So he started to call it you know, it was good actually. Why don't we talk to each other? No, it was good and it was inspirational in some ways. Why don't we talk to each other? Why don't we uh But we we do say that and then we don't do it?
SPEAKER_01Well it sounded like he wasn't doing it, and these terrible year seven sort of transition events where where we as the secondary I think we do miss a trick here, think that if we put a bit of I don't know what the chemical is into the Bunsen burner and it turns green, we're gonna sort of send the kids, you know, apoplectic with excitement, you know, about science in the secondary school. Only to get there, to find out there's so much content to get through, there's no time to put the Bunsen burner on.
Labs Rewards And Motivation
SPEAKER_00That's one of the I mean this is this isn't that, but this we are talking about sort of education in general, and I'd like to come back to this idea. I'm not a science specialist, I've never been a science specialist. I did do science, separate scienceists, GCSE, um, and I did attempt it at A level, but less said about that the better. So fundamentally, what I uh I've never understood is why all science lessons across the board, without exception, are taught in labs. But very little of what happens in those lessons requires a lab. No, it isn't. It could be in a bog standard classroom. It should be. Squeaky white board. Wouldn't wouldn't it be a better use of if you're building a new school? I mean, some schools have been around for a long time. Uh perhaps it wouldn't be How better equipped, lesser, fewer. Fewer rooms that you have to buy a bookable science room for doing experiments in. Exactly right. And most science lessons just And yet actually when you think about again about primary schools, wouldn't they benefit from a lab? A bookable lab. Absolutely. Which Very few, I think, have.
SPEAKER_01Well, I think some have. Some have had it, though, perhaps. But anyway, I again this has made me think about the differences again between primary story. I do think something that's genuine, and I'm happy to be um challenged on this, is the currency exchange rate for rewards is crazy, the the difference. So in primary school, you might do a mediocre drawing of a cat, maybe, and get a gold star. Possibly even I don't know whether platinum stars are out there or whether they've gone into double platinum. I don't I don't know. Maybe. I mean you've got kids.
SPEAKER_00Well, no, so I I I know a little bit about the rewards that we see, the tangible rewards, you know. Um, but we give out postcards in secondary school for students who've done one.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah, but I'm sort of coming to that. But this you know, you draw that mediocre drawing of a cat, you might get the platinum star. You feel like you're a sort of Nobel prize winner, don't you? You know, and and maybe that's great. That's what that's what you need when you're young to build your confidence.
SPEAKER_00Well, no, I was gonna say though, the postcards do they do happen in private, and they they don't just give them out. That's that's the point I was gonna make. The they probably do give out stickers.
SPEAKER_01Well, they but in secondary, you sort of write, and I remember sort of writing a 3,000-word thesis on the socioeconomic causes of the French Revolution or something like that, being told I had the equivalent in today's money of hmm, yeah, it's a it's a strong six. Yeah, you know, if you want the nine, you'd really need to redraft that and start again.
SPEAKER_00I I'd flip it on its head a little bit though and say that okay, we in secondary, you can give out postcards every lesson if we want to. We could, but we don't. We don't, you and I don't. We don't even know where the postcards are gonna, but some teachers do, right? And that's that's true. Some teachers give out postcards for what we in you and I might think in secondary, I mean, might not think merits a postcard, but they there's no clear criteria. We generally think if you've done quite well you you can have a postcard. But my daughter gets postcards what once if she's had a couple and they've meant you know we've kept them because they've meant quite a lot to her, but they don't they're sort of once every now and again. But then I go that the parents even I alluded to at the top of the show, you might recall. I was told she's achieving good things. So the postcard once a term doesn't necessarily reflect that, but at the same time, I think it's enough. I don't think she needs any more than that. They mean something, they she keeps them, she likes them. Whereas some of our kids in secondary get given postcards. I mean, they've got a they must have a bookshelf full of that's it's insane. They can't have any storage for these postcards, there's so many.
Nurture Versus The Secondary Stare
SPEAKER_01So but it's some teachers, and this I'm it brings me on brings me on to sort of the classroom management stuff. I absolutely refute this idea that primary is all about nurturing and secondary is all about being authoritative. I mean, that's just absolute nonsense. However, the style obviously has to be different, doesn't it? So primary teachers in in my experience have I mean you can't brand them all together, it's ridiculous, but in my experience, have that sort of customer service voice, you know. That sort of high-pitched, melodic, slightly terrifying, no class. We use our indoor voices, don't we? If we can't be quiet, the reading rug will be sad. Now you can't say things like that in a secondary school, can you? No, you can't make reference to a reading rug at all. Nothing else. You definitely can't. Um, but secondary school teachers have given up on the rug. Obviously, they can't. I don't think there's a budget for a rug at this juncture. So they use the stair, don't they, really? There's a sort of stair that we do. That um Oh, not the stairs.
SPEAKER_00You don't make it on the stairs. A stair. A stare, like a hard stare, like a padding to bar. Yeah, yeah, yeah. A sort of uh yeah. You hope that works, because if that doesn't work, you've got standing at the front. Well, arms folded, pause, yeah, arms folded. I say that because you are folding your arms to give a visual, but this is obviously our listening.
SPEAKER_01Silent, vibrating with a specific type of rage that can only be fuelled by low wages and teenage sarcasm. You know, it's that kind of right at the front of the uh of the class. Um it's totally, totally different. You can't I don't think you can compare one with the other in any way.
Take Homes And Goodbye
SPEAKER_00Well, I think we've done a fair bit to move forward's uh initial descriptions of the differences between primary and maybe maybe they could get in touch with us and we can support them with their website. Uh not not not in anything technical because I I don't understand how they work, but I I'd be happy to help them with the wording on there. And I think it might improve it might improve things because if they are genuinely sending out staff to school, to work in schools, in UK schools, that don't already know the difference between primary and secondary to a level where they understand the ages are different, um, I would worry about the calibre of staff uh that are going in. But we have once again we filled the time that we were aiming to fill, uh, and it is the end of the lesson. So uh what's your one take home from today, uh Ben?
SPEAKER_01Um that if I was thinking of moving into primary education, that I need to realise that those students might be younger.
SPEAKER_00Yes, yes. Uh I mean I I think I'd what I'd taken away from this is that there's no need to explain the difference between primary and secondary. So largely this was a waste of an episode, but hopefully still entertaining for some people.
SPEAKER_01Absolutely. And that you never need to be authoritative in a primary school. You don't need to be. And you never need to be nurturing in a secondary school. Absolutely. That's uh that those are take homes we shouldn't be taking home. Let's um bid our listeners adieu.
SPEAKER_00Uh I'm not going to do that. I'm just gonna say goodbye. Okay. Goodbye. Goodbye.