Five Contradictory Steps to Starting Secondary School

Crisps on a microphone shouldn't lead to a serious conversation about education. And, to be fair, it doesn't. Instead, it leads to a deep dive into the world of crisps, followed closely by Ben trying to recreate James' morning routine as though it were a gritty Sunday night TV drama.

Once we've finished auditioning actors for this dark, brooding biopic, we drift into the rest of the domestic chaos: reluctant wake-ups, hair dramas, and a child who currently insists on wearing a rotating collection of animal ears wherever they go. Along the way, we debate whether adults need to "perform" for children, what a proper homecoming from work actually looks like, and why Friday night pizza is less of a treat than a survival strategy.

Eventually, we remember this is supposed to be an education podcast.

This week's victim is a list of advice on helping pupils move from Year 6 to Year 7. On paper, it promises practical guidance. In reality, it's another collection of educational clichés, obvious observations, and suggestions that sound far more impressive than they are useful.

We pick apart the recommendations, wonder how five pieces of advice can contradict each other so spectacularly, and lament missing the webinar that promised to use the power of celebrity to help Year 6 pupils settle into secondary school.

If you've ever read an education article and wondered whether the author has actually met a Year 7—or if you just want to hear the pitch for James' upcoming television debut—this one's for you.

Leave us a review, and while you're there, let us know: what's your Friday night comfort food?

Email: bandjcdb@gmail.com
Website: benandjamescoulddobetter.com

Transcript

Crisps Choices And Snack Habits

SPEAKER_00 0:19

We have got the choice. See, what happened here is I bought a multi-pack of different flavours. Early morning Saturday trip to Tesco's before the swim school and then the French school. But yeah, I bought the multi-pack of different flavours, and obviously Jemira tends to be uh an original. I mean actually I haven't tried her on the other flavours, and she'd probably be okay with them, but there's no need to mess around with. So I bought these two so you've got three times barbecue beef, three times salt vinegar, three times original, which obviously could go home, and three times. Well, I think they should go home, shouldn't they? Three times cheese and onion if you're. Well, I do like the cheese and onion hula hoop. Cheese and onion hula hoop? Okay, well that's good. What's your view on cheese and onion oula hoop? I I quite like them all actually. Uh I've I I've I've yeah, they're quite pleasant. I've and I don't like cheese and onion as a crisp generally. So your daughter lives in a world where she believes oula hoop only come in one sort of flavour. Yeah, although she has tried other flavours of other crisps, so I don't know why I'm restricting her on this. Why have I died on this hill? I don't know. There's no reason for it, is there? It's it seemed like you're really committed to it though. I might let I'm no, we're not gonna eat all of these. There's there's like twelve packets in there. We're not gonna eat twelve packets while we're gonna be. Well, don't don't tempt me. Well I'm going for the barbecued beef. And again, I wouldn't like that in any other crisp. No. I don't mind it in a in a Ulla. Yeah, because the the McCoys one is just too much, isn't it? There's too much beef. That is, it's overly flavoured. And by the time you've investigated the ridges, it there's too much flavouring there. I tell you what, some of our listeners like this sort of stuff. I tell you one listener who won't like it. Right, who's that? It's our friend called Matt. Oh goodness, no. Oh, he gave us some feedback, didn't he? He did. He only made it as far as you talk about, just biscuits. It was episode nine, uh, and we did talk a lot about biscuits in that one. And we have done that, we have got a history of talking a lot about biscuits and other high calorie snacks as we've just done. Yeah. But no, he really he wasn't. I I don't think he got past the biscuits. I think that was it. I don't think I think we can actually talk about him quite freely because I don't think there's any danger of him listening to this at all. Well, he told me he was still making his way through through episode nine. That particular I mean it's a strange place to start. Yeah. And normally people struggle to make their way through episode one. We've had that feedback. And he said, Did you just talk about biscuits the old time? I mean he's not far off, is he? Well, I suppose in that one we did talk about them a lot, but I mean I I would have thought it might have been a good idea to sort of born with it. But then it then episode 11, if he'd stuck with it, he wouldn't have got me that was basically supermarkets all the way through. He wouldn't have got past the ocean. You know, and Matt's not the kind of person to go and read Ghosty Clusters by Tom Hanks. No. Have you read it yet? I haven't read it yet. I've not even got close to I've not read anything by Tom Hanks. Do you remember when we didn't eat crisps and drink coke on air, we just used to do it just before recording or sort of in there? Oh yeah. We're quite happily just looking at like that when we are. I'm not sure whether people are quite happily listening to it. It's a very odd thing to probably listen to, isn't it? Probably shouldn't do it, but no. The microphones do you pick this up? Well, I do like this. Is this is nice, this barbecue beef. It's been a while since I had a barbecue beef. Ooh, oopla oop. So anyway,

The Punishing Weekday Morning Routine

SPEAKER_00 3:17

I want to know more about your routines because I to me they feel punishing. So no, they are. It is punishing. So why don't you take me through let's let's do a typical weekday morning and then I want to take us into Friday night. Let's do let's banish our mouths from crisps and let's you um you take me through a standard Burke household school morning. What what does what does that feel like? Well it does vary and it does depend on what time I get up, to be honest with you, because I I like I don't like to be in work early, but I tend to try tend to try and get into work early to try and get the uh the get a get a head start on the paperwork. Now I've been making this claim most of this year that I start work at six o'clock in the morning. I mean I'm not sure I No, I mean I I I have lived that life where I start work at six o'clock in the morning, and that used to be the norm. And it was good because I'd get through a lot of paperwork and it would be um, you know, that's kind of it's quite a busy role. And when the school day starts and the kids are there, it's harder to do that stuff, and I'm not very good at working in the evenings. So it's sort of the payoff is I'd get up early in the morning. Lately, and I'd say most of this year I haven't managed that at all. And what happens is uh the there's another advantage that used to just be what I did anyway. Pre pre-children and everything, I would always come early in the morning. But since having children, if I don't get up early, they sort of like when they wake up, you kind of get sucked into their morning routine. Because believe it or not, and I don't know if it's come across on this podcast yet, but I do I do quite like my children. Um that has come across. I love my children, obviously, because I'm their father and you know that that sort of should go without saying one in matches that does go without saying, but I actually do quite like spending time. They they they do when they're awake and I'm still there, I do get sucked in because I quite enjoy spending, so it's not like a kind of chore. I actually do like, but then they are there is quite a lot of maintenance to two children, and I've not given my wife a name on this podcast, but she's she is called Jenny. She's just been known as your wife. She's been known as my wife, but Jenny, Jen, as I I don't call her Jenny, I mean Jen would be the closest I'd get to her actual name. So Jen would um you know, she does the routine every now, she's uh I want to be clear, she's not a stay-at-home mum, although she is a stay-at-home mum because she stays at home. She's at home. When Matilda was born, uh Jen had just started doing a PhD. And that it has now turned into the world's longest PhD because we've had two children in the uh in the interim. Um I mean that has got to be I mean it's quite noteworthy, isn't it? It is, but it's not. I I think it it is because it's it's sort of gone on for nine years, but at the same time, it's gone on for nine years because there's been two periods of paternity leave and it's part is she's been doing it part-time. Should we ask our listeners if they uh are actually doing a doctorate that has lasted longer than nine years? I mean it'd be perhaps they could. It'd be impressive, and so yeah. So Jenny is off the obviously she does the morning routine with the with the kids, but then if I'm there, I will try and. But the morning routine then would be I tend to help with the sort of breakfasts and things if if I'm around. So uh Jemima, the youngest, the four-year-old, she always eats a yogurt at the start of the day. Oh how does how is that in French? Yaut. Yout. Yaut. So so she goes, um papa, papa, youth. No, she doesn't do that. Papa youth. I mean that's just it that's just insanity. No, but what why doesn't she go papa, papa, youth? For for one thing. Yout grec. She wouldn't do that because one, she's far more articulate than that, in both English and French. So uh you've slightly misjudged the uh the vocabulary of the channel. Well, okay, how would she ask for it in English? She wouldn't ask for it because she's not interested. She'd probably ask if she can watch the telly. Right. Or or not ask and just turn it. You don't understand I'm a drama teacher. I want to feel like I'm there. It's no good you just brushing it off. Like it's no, no, well, she wouldn't have said it like that. She's much more eloquent than that, you know. No, but I want to think of her going papa, papa, youth. Well, you think of her like that, but it just I just want you to know that's incorrect. Right. If you would but then again, often, you know, the the dramatization of people's lives on the big screen or even the small screen. Which would be accompanied by in the corner it would say dramatization. Yeah. So if you if you decided, I don't know, let's let's say this podcast gets significantly more successful than it comes to. Well, it needs to. It's it's yeah. We'll talk about your obsession with the stats later on. Well, no, well, we could talk about stats later on, but uh let's imagine that the podcast takes off to sort of levels where somebody would be interested in making a dramatisation of my life, and you, as an experienced lesbian slash well generally kind of a dramatist. Uh is that a word, dramatist? Yeah, you can say that, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Playwright or dramatist. So someone who's you know got a lot of theatrical experience and in an actual we've not talked about your television experience, and we will do. We're not today though, we won't, but we will on a future episode because that deserves more time than we're gonna allocate it to. I think it very much does deserve that. It does deserve a whole episode, but anyway, uh you know, you are experienced in in these matters, and you you would be capable, I imagine, of making a fairly decent stab of the dramatization of my life. Thank you very much. Yeah, I'd love to. I'd love to do that. But I think you would take liberties with it. Oh, there's no doubt there would be uh some scenes have been added for for dramatic effects. The the papa papa youth uh I would be directing this young actress who could do so. I I can say more than that, and no no who would be from Hounslow or something, and I'd be going, no, no, no, I want Papa, papa, the papa, but no, no, papa, papa, like this. Youth Yout. Yeah, which um in reality would be would be taking liberties because it that's not how it happens. As I say, she's barely interested in the morning in in the yogurt. The yogurt is it's not force fed to her because she will eat it. She's quite happy to eat it. But at least she's not one of these 20-somethings who like to slurp it out of a pouch. No, she oh she you know, in I mean, yeah, but in her younger days, and I know she's only four, but in the younger days she did enjoy a pouch because a lot of baby food comes in pouches. Uh but she's that's okay, but it's not okay for your 20. Uh no, she has a a Greek yogurt because she likes a Greek yogurt and because that's something we can persuade her to eat. Right. So that's how she'd start the day. It's entirely my fault, but this is a bit slow moving at the moment. So what's it is you keep interrupting, partly, yeah. I mean you out. Um I mean, I I'm I I I I've actually prepared something for this uh for this uh cold open, but we've we've gone in this direction. And uh well, I suppose the the morning routine though is you know, if I'm around, I'll help them have their breakfast. Jemima always has a Greek yogurt. We can you know, and she doesn't say papa papa youth, but she'll always have a Greek yogurt. Matilda will usually be quite reluctant to get out of bed. And she won't speak to you in French. She won't so she'd speak to me in English and she'd just go, Dad, dad. Yeah. But she'd normally you'll hear um Jen trying to wake her up and she'd go in a in a kind of no right almost like she's been cattle prodded into her. I don't want to, I'm not gonna you know, and like a lot of resistance to getting out of bed, and then a lot of anger towards the world because it's morning and she doesn't want to uh deal with it. I feel that sometimes. But this is I mean, this is a child that actually quite likes school, so it's nothing to do with I don't want to go to school. She just doesn't want to get out of bed in the morning, which you know I think we can all relate to, but uh is she's quite committed to the staying, quite reluctant to go to bed the night before. Lot a lot of effort to to move from one stage of being in bed to another stage of being in bed with one leg hanging out, yeah. I mean, sort of generally kind of and then she'll kind of come and says, and then she'll be angry about how just getting ideas for the cinematography as well. Well, indeed, it's gonna be quite powerful stuff. I think it'd be dark as anything as well. Um I mean not in real life, no, but yeah. Tyroscuro lighting coming through a threadbare curtain, you know, because we'd really want to play up the sort of rags to riches story. Or they're part of this. Well, certainly rags rags is is seems true. Or is it is for both of us at the moment, rags very much to rags. Yes, doesn't seem like can we get another month out of those? Yeah, I think so. Not a great deal of riches, no, but she then will not want to get dressed, and then she won't want to have her hair done. That's a that's a thing. So that's uh now I don't that's one part of the routine I wouldn't get involved in. I think. So you're not in I can't see you platting her. I've not I've got no idea what I'd be doing with that. I mean, that's just you know and actually that's a gentle brush. When she is reluctant to let Jen brush her hair and kind of do her hair. Um one of the ways I we if I am around, if I haven't made that six o'clock start to work, which is rarer and rarer that that actually happens, I would say, uh I'll do it then. Now I have no intention of doing it, but she knows what that would that the incompetence that I would bring to that task is enough usually to persuade Matilda to relent and let Jen do her hair. So that's quite quite my presence is quite helpful just because of I wouldn't bring anything to that task. So then it's into the uniforms. Into the uniform. Well only what so Matilda has a uniform because she's primary school. Uh Jawa doesn't have a uniform because she still goes to nursery, and and nursery they do let her wear her ears. We've not talked

Bunny Ears Bluey Ears And Boundaries

SPEAKER_00 11:46

about her ears, have we? I mean, she's got obviously she's got ears, she's a child or human being with ears. But she well, she's gone through a phase, and this has been since she was about 18 months old of wearing a headband with with various animals' ears at various stages. Yes. So Bunny Ears was the the sort of the original. Then there was cat ears, was quite uh popular. And at the moment she wears I don't know you wouldn't be familiar with this actually, you wouldn't be familiar with the cartoon Bluey. Um you've heard of it. So there's Mercifully all I know about it. I mean the the the characters in Bluey are they're all dogs, uh Australian dogs, actually. Although my my daughters watch it in French because obviously that's what we do to them. But uh so But your older daughter will refuse to talk to you about it in French. Absolutely, yes. Um she will still watch it. Bluey's actually quite watchable. Of all the the things they said. Bluey in French, please? Uh Bluey. Bluey. Bluey. Basically, all the characters have got the same names in French, they're just with a French accent. I just wanted to hear you say that. But Bluey and Bingo are sisters. Uh Bluey is the older sister, bingo is the younger sister, so Jemima being the younger sister has identified as Bingo and now wears the character the the same ears. The ears, the headband ears she's got now are the ones that they look like bingo off of Bluey. Yeah. So that's what she wears. So How are we going to? I mean, I'm all for children being expressive and exploring themselves. When are we going to remove the ears? Yeah. Yeah. No, this we this has been brought up by a number of people. How will she cope without the ears? And I know you wanted to talk about the the entire routine, but we've gone on a lot about just this brief morning routine of a weekday. But you know, let's fast forward to the sort of Saturday routine. Saturday morning, Matilda goes swimming, but on Sunday morning, Jemima goes swimming, and I have to take Jemima swimming. Jemima knows that you can't wear the ears in the swimming pool, so she's quite happy to take them off. So and she doesn't wear them to bed either. So actually, she has got a sense of when it's appropriate to wear them. Well, I like that. I like that about her. We were we were. I think we're gonna get on famously. I think you might, yeah. So she takes the ears off to go swimming, and she has taken them off for other occasions. So we're quite relaxed about primary school. But there might be a difference on the first day of primary school, or maybe it will just happen. No, I think if we I think if it's explained to her that she can't wear ears to primary school, she'll just not wear them. She's she's actually surprisingly sensible. Quickly, just before we leave this, I want to know about Friday night, which you seem to be dodging.

Friday Night Pizza Maths And Muck Sweat

SPEAKER_00 14:03

I'm not dodging Friday night. You are obsessed with my Friday night routine. And there is And I have been for a long time. And this stems from me leaving you in work on a Thursday. Yeah. As we often have a chat after work, if we can find the time. Yeah. Um, we'll have to know a chat and then I'll dash off on a Thursday night. It's quite a muck sweat that you get into about it. It's a muck sweat. I do want to get home. Which is a phrase I love. I absolutely love it. I think is I I do I do want to get home to see my family. I've already said earlier in this episode, I I quite like my family. I mean I don't know. I mean, beyond the I mean it's an element of you protest a bit too much. I mean I like I like to see them and I I uh it gets quite late, and uh their bedtime's much earlier than an adult's bedtime. Try not to make me feel too guilty, but yeah, if you could so fitting in the buying the pizza is something that causes a m a small amount of stress, so do you do need to make sure I've bought it. Now the reason now you think this is like we we think this is a great thing that we have pizza on a Friday night. It's really normal, by the way, to have pizza on a Friday. It's nothing. I'm not sure about every Friday. But you are not a four-year-old or indeed a seven-year-old. No. So I've been accused, alright. I want you to understand that I'm not obsessed with having pizza every Friday. No, I can believe that. I don't care if I have pizza, and actually Jen actively wouldn't mind if we didn't have pizza every Friday. She'd quite like a break from it. She'd like a break from it. She's not that interested in the pizza. But the girls like having their pizza on a Friday, and they are more they do like routine. So what will happen is I'll go to the supermarket and I've got to buy the pizza on Thursday because I'm usually not home in time on the Friday to deliver the pizza that if they'll normally have eaten it, but so we don't all sit down and eat our pizza together. So that's one thing that you've got confused about. You think we all Well I it used to be hide and seek, uh, youngest daughter definitely, and sometimes the eldest daughter uh Oh I mean the youngest one still hides under the table routinely. And she and and you go, Oh, there doesn't seem to be anybody here. Yes, but I think again, you think I say that with some sort of enthusiasm and delight. Well Whereas actually what I would what happens, this is how it actually works, okay? It's hardly Christmas at the Cratchettes, is it? I'll arrive I'll arrive home at weather time. This is most most nights of the week. Uh I'll arrive home and I'll I'll open the door. After Scrooge has had a hard time in it. I'll arrive home, open the door, I'll see Matilda, and Matilda says, Hi Dad, or something like that. Yeah. Um, maybe tell me something about her day. You wouldn't even know she went to French school. No, no, no. Hi Dad. Uh I might see Jen. Jen might either be upstairs getting on with something. Would she be upbeat to see you? Who? Well, Jen. No. My wife, yeah, she's certainly happy. Matilda. Matilda's very happy to see you. Hi, Dad. So it's quite an animated thing. Hi Dad. I want to be there. I haven't been there. And you never will. Hi, Dad. Really upbeat. Dramatisations need I need some more characteristics. She'll either be really upbeat and interested to see me. Or she'll go. Or no, she's never upset to see me, but she'll either be really upbeat because she's noticed I've arrived home, or she'll be involved in something that she's doing. Hi, Dad. And so no, she wouldn't even she wouldn't even notice me then because she'll be busy doing communicado. Yeah, but it's not rudeness, it's just unawareness, right? But she will be happy to see me. She's not hiding. Now there was a time where she would have joined in the hide and seat, but she's not, she's beyond that now. Then I will hear a giggle and I will see Jemima's. I'll see Jemima's feet. I mean, again, in the dramatisation, potentially like that, but not really. I'll see Jemima's feet under the table. Yeah. She's not the best at hiding. And I'll do the but it'll be a kind of oh, we seem to have lost Jemima. Oh dear. And it's quite monotone. Was there a time when you you get a bit more? No, it never was. No. But in in the for the this is the thing, you don't need to act. I like to think it's faded over time. You don't need to act for children. There's this nonsense it's nonsense when people do oh like it's nonsense. Kids don't care. You just need to say the right lines in the script. Oh, I think they'd like it if you don't need to perform, honestly. Well, it's just because they've had a dad who hasn't performed. No, it's well, you you you might enjoy the performance aspect of it. I'm quite Uncle Ben could well add a different um perhaps dimension to this. I don't think that Jerima's just delighted because she's genuinely taking me at face value that I don't know where she is. Right. Even though, even at four, she must know that I do know where she is, because that's where she always is. She's quite happy. But Matilda, who's now seven, nearly eight actually, is sort of fairly irritated by this. So she'll just go, She's under the table.

SPEAKER_01 18:30

No, I like that.

SPEAKER_00 18:31

I like that bit. So if we finish this segment by I I'm just trying to think again from for dramatisation cinematography purposes. I want to do the sort of gritty British version of um say a Liam Neeson thriller. Yeah, okay. You know, where at the start we've got the equilibrium, haven't we? Yeah. So he goes, Oh, um, because obviously a bad, an Irish accent trying to do uh to uh an American accent, so he'll go, hi, you know, or whatever it is. And she goes, Oh, come on, you know, haven't you eaten your toast yet? You know, all this kind of stuff. Um bye, darling, bye darling. I said, have a good trip. What are you doing in? Hey, hey, take that off. They're not gonna want that in school. Okay, that that kind of thing. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, and there's lots of kisses and kisses. You know what's gonna happen next is either the vehicle's gonna be sideswiped by four kidnappers or somebody's gonna be decapitated, you know, or whatever it might happen to be. Snatched. Obviously, that's not gonna happen in the story of James Burke and the sensation that is Ben and James could do better, you know, and it's its rise to um provincial theatres. Yeah, yeah. So doing this. So what would we see? So so Icarus don't fly too close to the side. So what would what would we see? It says okay, so see, camera shot opens. We can't give obviously to protect everybody involved, and we don't want you to be mobbed. We can't say the road, we can't even pinpoint the area of reading. It's too dodgy, it's too difficult for everybody. Yeah. But the camera will pan down this sort of street of terraced houses. There might be an overhead shot of a roof that might have seen better days. We'll go in through let's just I know there aren't, but let's just imagine yeah, because we want to show Ragstariches the holes in the curtain. We we sort of zooming in very painfully slowly as we hear Come on, up you get No! Yeah. What else? Come on, give me the I wanna I wanna be there. Is there somebody shaking cereal into a bowl? Well now that does vary. Um I mean it's not exactly but um But i we've got to get this in our heads. So it's no this would be I mean this this actually happened um um this this week, in fact. Uh is there a microwave going? Is the washing machine? The washing machine often would be a big thing. Two kids do generate a lot of laundry. But no, so this happened this week actually. I um uh I was there, I was there in in the house doing the I yeah, got up, tried to get out on in time, hadn't managed it, kids got up, got involved, and I as I say like to make the breakfast if I'm around, so the yogurt was the Greek yogurt was provided. Then I went to make Matilda's breakfast and I popped two slices of toast on the toaster. Yeah, that'll be a shop. Little cutaway the two And I think it would have to be for the roadster riches stories a sort of fairly a very cheap sort of Argos stroke as the white two-sliced toaster. It's actually a four-sliced toaster and it makes it. I don't want to know what actually is there. Right. I'm talking about I just kind of do. I kind of do and I don't. So two slice sort of it's yeah, I know what you're what you're picturing, but it's it's a slightly better toaster than that. Yeah. Uh I mean it's not the you know, it's a sort of middle of the range toaster. Is there a sort of dirty sandwich maker? Not on the worktop, no. Uh there is a sandwich maker, but it doesn't we don't get any don't really use it. So that's sort of become redundant. But it's been there we've actually that sandwich maker. I can see you're almost reminiscing about it. The time when you used to put a my parents bought me that. Well I I li I mean, long before I married Jen. So I mean you might have bought it from Bootsmen's Technical, which will take it to the possibly not not that far back, not as far back as there being a Bootsmen's Technical. But they bought it for me when I lived in Manchester. And I lived in a flat chair in Manchester. And so the the sandwich maker is twenty years old, is is and that's not bad, is it that the uh toasted sandwich maker? That's twenty. So my parents bought me that when I lived in Manchester, which is before me and Jen were together, we'd been together for that long. So that's that's that's uh it's a a durable relationship, isn't it? But we've we've not been married for that long, we've not lived together for that long. So but we both did live in Manchester. We didn't meet, we met in Paris, but we've we she moved to Manchester to do a master's degree, I moved there to be a bit closer to her. And my parents bought me a uh a toasted sandwich maker, and that that's still the same one that I have today. So that's there, but that's not uh in use. So I put two slices of toast in the four-sliced toaster, and they popped up, and I put some honey on the toast, because Matilda likes honey on toast, and I cut them into fours, and I delivered the toast to Matilda, and she said, What what yeah? We're starting to get into scripting here. I don't I don't want toast. And I said, You always have toast. Like I always make you toast, that's what you've that's what you have. And she said, No, I had I started having cereal again. Uh I had cereal yesterday. I want cereal again. And it's things like that, you know, that that's the drama. Back to what sort of pizza are we talking about on a Friday night? Oh, you really are going down the pizza. Well, we covered the hide and seek. We didn't really get to the pizza, did we? No, I mean largely because of your interruptions. It's you're you you have asked these questions. I couldn't be less interested in talking about pizza. I know, I think people love a bit of human interest. Well, you you say that, but you ask the questions and then you interrupt with the answers. It's quite an interesting question. Well, okay, I won't interrupt about the pizza. What what you know, what delight, what small goods board is put placed on the table? So the girls just quite like a value pizza. Just wait till you've opened those chocolate fingers, perhaps. Yeah, now I'm eating a chocolate finger. You interrupted you. And I haven't finished my hula hoops. So I'm eating hula hoops and chocolate fingers at the same time, and this reminds me of a 1980s children's party. Yeah, very much so. Keep looping back to previous episodes, don't we? Great through line. Wonderful. So the girls like a value pizza. So it is basically the £1 or £1.50 pizza, whatever, whatever price is in the supermarket. They'll they'll share that. And the way it works is this, and you'll like this, because this is his routine, is we cut it's cut into eight slices. And they're both given three slices each. Which leaves if you mean maths, is I know it's it's not a strong point. But you'll realize there's two slices left there. Yeah. So they'll eat their three slices, and then Matilda will go and get the other two. So she'll have five slices and Jemima will have three. Which is about right, because Matilda's Why don't you just give her the five to start with? We would. This isn't this isn't our decision. This is Matilda's decision. She likes to be given three, and then she likes to go and get it. What would she do if you gave her five? She'd say, Can you take two, two back? I'll go and get them in a minute. She likes to go and get this. I don't know why. The pizzas that me and Jem will have will be later in the evening. And what will will they be higher quality? They'll be significantly higher quality. But they won't be pizza expressible like they'll be the Asda ones where you get sort of there's literally a deal on them. So if you buy two medium pizzas and a bottle of coke or something, it's cheaper than if you just bought two pizzas. So it'll be one of those deals. She'll have a vegetarian pizza, and I'll usually bits of peppers and stretch things, isn't it? Yeah. She'll have that. Um and I'll I'll usually have one with meat on, but that will vary. I I don't um it'll be something that have the name like Mighty Meaty or something like that, or uh some sort of dominoes rip-off. Some sort of dominoes rip-off. And they are but they're they're fairly okay, though it's working. But fresher, I would have thought. Yeah. Sometimes it'll be a different supermarket, it'll be a different pizza, but generally higher quality. Now, the reason we have pizzas is purely out of convenience because, as you know, because this is another irritation of yours that I sometimes have to go to my martial arts class. Oh god, don't even get me started on that. So that's a whole different Yeah, but on a Friday that'll be why I'm home a little bit later. So I'll go from work to my martial arts class. Although actually now Matilda comes with me sometimes, so I might go home pick her up after she's had her pizza and we'll both go, or I'll just go straight depending on what's going on. And then I'll come home and then the girls will go to bed. And that's why it's sort of it's a little bit later than would be ideal to sort of cook a meal from scratch, although that is something that's in my wheelhouse. I can cook a fairly decent meal from scratch, but on a Friday I'm a bit tired after a week in work, so that's mainly why we'd go down the pizza route. How would you feel if I was leaving school and rubbing my hands through my hair at about five to five and going, right, mum, I'm just off to um amateur dramatics again. I know what you're gonna say. In fact, shall I answer for you? I'd be fine with it. I'll be fine with it. That's what you want to do. That's what I'm I'd be really encouraging of it. What you are someone that's very good at reading other people. And it's something you've you've commented on about yourself, but it's true, you you usually have read other people pretty well. And you've spotted that. My reluctance to sort of let you know that I've got to go and I'll start giving sort of tells. I suppose that's nice. You know, and that's yeah, exactly, because I'm quite a nice person who doesn't want to sort of like abruptly end the conversations or then I'll let the conversation go on a little bit too close to when I need to leave, yeah, and then I will be in a bit of a rush. Uh, you, on the other hand, yeah, there have been times where you've had that's the thing. There are sometimes times where you've got you have got somewhere to be. It's rare, but yeah, it has happened. Yeah, and when that happens, there's no such niceties with you. You'll just you'll just abruptly say, Right, I've got to go. There's no and it'll be like it'll be mid-sentence, you know. I'll be so selfish. I'll be halfway through a story, and rather than the usual interruptions where you just interrupt with a different story, you'll interrupt with, right, I've got to go. Is that what I do? It is what you do. So say, because you're very, very good at reading other people, but you're not so good at reading yourself. Oh, I like I want to oh god, I want to hear more. I know, but we've uh we've got to go on with the show. Welcome

The Show Proper And The Register

SPEAKER_00 27:51

to Ben and James Could Do Better. A show that starts off pretending to be about education, but it's more often than not, as our good friend Matt pointed out, about high calorie snacks. It is. And I don't even think we're pretending to be about education in this one, are we? Um well we are good, in fact, we are going to, because that's that's we I I I have prepared a sort of education-based. But I mean at the start of it. No, no. We did used to. In the early episodes, we did sort of pretend all the way through it was about education. We've we've moved. I just realized how boring it was quite early doors. We're talking about talking about education. No, I think I don't think it I don't because it's not always boring, is it? But I think the bit that's boring is No, some of some of the the subject. I think the uh the teacher affectations we did right at the start, they were a bit dull, uh. Okay, well I think it's time for the register now. Is everybody sitting down? Uh that doesn't look like the right uh seat according to my seating plan, young man. Right. Okay, well then we're ready to start the register with this rather silly patronizing voice, aren't we? Now I'm here. I'm Mr. Slade, known to my friends as Ben. Uh do we have James? Hi, kokoniyamasu. And what is that? I I hope it's Japanese. Kokoniyamasu. I think so. That's what it says. Kokoniyamatsu. I mean I use Google Translate, but I can't speak Japanese. I think that's plain. Well, you don't know. You still think French is uh pa pa pay. Yat yat exactly. So I mean, you know, I won't be challenged on my linguistic uh prowess by you. Yeah, that's alright. Fair enough. Who

Postcards Online And A Weekly Theme

SPEAKER_00 29:24

am I? Who am I? Is that a postcard I can see over there then? Yep, yep, I've got a postcard in my hand. Isn't it great to see them online? I don't know if all of our listeners are aware of that yet. Well, it really brings it home to me when I can see them there. I I hope you understand the purpose of them now. Like it's a nice visual that goes on the blog that accompanies the show. Because if you haven't yet checked out, we're a multimedia organisation at this point. So we have a blog, Ben and Jamescoulddobetter.com. That's Ben and JamesCoddobetter.com. Where you can not only can you listen to all of these episodes, because the episodes are on on they're they're available on multiple platforms, but they're available on on that website. But it's like a visual guide, isn't it? But also the postcards that feature in this show are there as well. You can see them. So I think that brings it very much brings it home. And um A real companion, I think. Yeah, and also a little behind the scenes to the making of Ben and James, uh the poster, some of the uh the very real arguments we've had over the postcard feature I've uh I've described in detail. So uh you know I think if people could see behind the scenes here, it would it would be incredibly underwhelming. A little, but that's okay because you know they can't. So it's fine. Thanks. Um anyway, the postcard that I've got in my hand, um it's very clever. It's very clever actually. It's some pictures of some it's a picture of some flowers, sort of a cartoonish picture. I mean I'll show it to you, you can see that. Some flowers, and there's some worms in there as well. I don't know what the worms are doing really, but there's a bee sort of hovering over the flowers, and the words on the postcard say, hey, it's gonna be okay. Can I look at it? Very cleverly, they haven't used the word B. They've just used the they've just used B E. So they they've missed the opportunity for the pun there because hey, it's gonna be okay, but they haven't used the spelling. Could be a typo, is it? They haven't used the spelling B double e to really play on the fact there's a B in the picture. Yeah, so what are we gonna focus our attentions on this week? Well, it's

Five Transition Tips Put To Trial

SPEAKER_00 31:16

it's July. We're fast approaching the end of another academic year. Yeah, yeah. And we're all thinking about well, realistically, we're all thinking about the six weeks we get off, which is often disappointingly five and a half weeks, world's smallest violin I know. But uh Yeah, it's not quite six, is it? It's not quite six, certainly not for the teachers when you throw in those inset days as well. But we we are professionally, we're thinking about next year now, aren't we? Quite quite a lot of the work we're doing now is in preparation for the next school year. And one of the big things that happens at the end of any academic year is something called transition. Oh yeah, yeah. You know, and the big transition, really, the big one. I mean, obviously the pet all the GCSE students moving on to six, one more. Everyone sort of gets promoted, don't they? Yeah. But the big one, the one that sort of like really attracts the headlines and the kind of you know, the sort of focus is the is the move from primary to secondary. Primary to secondary. I'm gonna challenge you. I don't think it I don't think it hits the headlines. Not the headlines, but you know, the one that I mean it's a bit dramatic, isn't it? Well, I think when when probably of the It's the bigger transition, isn't it? Of the TES and don't even think it makes those. I think it's it's talked about. It's talked about, yeah. A lot of things are talked about. I wouldn't call them headline news. But I mean, yeah. Let's let's Well, I wouldn't call the GCSE results headline statistics, but they are what we refer to as our headline statistics. Yes. No one else is talking about them. Yeah. But I suppose they matter to the lives of the people involved. So so the year sixes have just completed their SATs, they have a bit of fun at the end of year six, go on trips and various things like that. D mob happy. But they've got to prepare themselves for year seven and the demands of year seven. Yeah. My goodness, is it demanding? And there's a lot of talk about, you know, it's if it's not handled correctly, it can have quite a big impact on the long-lasting. And and I'm not sure, I think what maybe sometimes secondary schools are accused of is not taking it seriously enough. Yeah, because of course our primary colleagues, and we have mentioned this right back in an early episode. In fact, could even have been the first one. No, second episode. Oh right, okay. The one that was called primary colleagues. I'm not keeping a panini sticker book on them, but uh yeah, so so number two, uh, you know, obviously those similarities and differences between primary and secondary. We're not no, we're not doing that. We're not doing that, are we? No, but we are saying that I said, I think, uh at least in something that's probably on the cutting room floor, I did say No, it did make the edit. What you're referring to did make the edit when you say primary school teachers sometimes can be, you know, quite reproachful of us secondary colleagues uh in in how we In their eyes, possibly wasting some opportunities in year seven. Yeah, absolutely. Right. Okay. So I thought, you know, because this is really but we've we've we've the advertising suggests that this is aimed at secondary teachers. Yeah. Oh yeah. I mean, God knows. Could be anybody absolutely failed to deliver. Could be fishermen, it wouldn't make any difference. We've largely failed to deliver on that, but I thought we might deliver today. Right. Because I've found So this is subject specific, is it? Not subject, not subject specific, niche specific. Specifically about transition. Right, okay, okay. Five practical ways, and only five as well. Oh, thank goodness. Merciful Mercifully shortlist. And you know, possibly shorter than five, actually, when you again when you drill down. But five practical ways to strengthen year six to year seven transition. Right. And a free resource. A free resource. Yeah, absolutely. Right. So we'll finish on that. Obviously, that's quite exciting. Yeah, well, I I like anything that's free. Right. Particularly if it's good. And from the look on your face, it looks as though it is really good. I mean, you you will not be able to contain yourself. So let's go on with the list then. So uh five practical ways to strengthen years, six to seven transition. Now I printed this out on quite small print. So Well, as as always, it it's not something I've seen. No, no. Um I need to concentrate. Anyway, basically it says, you know, transition it from year six to year seven is one of the most significant moments in a pupil school journey. Uh we'll all agree on that. Yeah. Uh and schools often invest time in the logistics, but the biggest challenges often sit beneath the surface. Yeah, it's quite a stressful time for parents and for students. How do we ensure pupils arrive feeling confident and prepared and ready to thrive? Well, any resource is going to help with this. Number one, start with the emotional transition, not the timetable. So uh too often schools' transition focuses on systems, timetables uniform, behavior systems, roots around the school, and they don't think about sort of head rather than heart. Yeah, yeah, yeah. No. Uh, because far too many people for for for sorry, for many pupils, the dominant experience is emotional. Fear of the unknown. And we're busy showing them around the school and showing them how it works, and they're worried about the unknown. Yeah. And we're not taking care of that. We're too busy showing them how everything works and not thinking about the fact that they're worried that they don't know how everything works. That's right. It's ridiculous. No, this is absolutely right. We've got it all around the wrong way. We forget that they're worried about all the things that they've got to learn how to do. We're too busy teaching them how to do that. And how not to be worried. And how not to be worried about that stuff to not to we've just missed. So, what we could do instead is create structured opportunities for people to voice their worries and ask questions. Explicitly address common concerns. Like we've got to explicitly address the things they don't know, but we're too busy showing them. We're too busy addressing it. We're too busy addressing their concerns to address their concerns. Yeah, I see where you're going. It's it's it's right. Okay, so um so we're focused too much on the timetable and not enough about their worries about how they'll But the transition event is to listen to their questions, address their worries head on, yeah, and show them how things work in school to demystify these. We're not getting that right. Right. Because we're too busy showing them how everything works. And answering their questions. And answering their questions. I see, yeah. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, you're quite uh you're quite right. You're quite right. Right, okay. So so that's not that's point one. We need to stop showing them how everything works and listen to them. Stop giving them practical advice. Stop giving them practical advice. Start giving them practical advice. I think so. Yeah. That's yeah, right. So we need some okay, right. Yeah, that seems seems fair enough. Number two, remember it's only a five-point list, it would be over soon. Work with primary schools, not just after the primary school. So transition is often treated as a handover. But it is a hand because it is a handover. It is a handover. So one school stops teaching them and another one starts teaching them. But what instead of that we could do is we could work with our primary schools and share our clear expectations about routines, behavior, and learning. Yeah. Which we've just been told not to do in point one. So point one said stop talking about timetables, yes, and and all of this systems, system, system, system overload. Right. Yeah, and sh give them practical ideas, which of course is the whole point of transition. Yeah. Point two is get into those primary schools and give them all of that information that they don't want. I I don't I'm I'm confused. Um yeah, it definitely is confusing. Right, anyway, let's put point three, make transition visible, shared, and positive. So as a secondary school, they're asking us to so share positive stories from current students. Well, I've never heard of that. I've never heard of um we never do that, do we? We never get the current year sevens to talk to the what an incredible idea. That's really good. We should do that. Well, it's been alright, actually. Yeah, you know, and we're we're quite safe and we're well looked after and that's ground. I've never I've never heard of that. Goodness it. Well, we no, I've never seen that. No, no, no. Thank you, thank you. Where's the list come from? I want to thank them. Well, it's actually come from a sort of well-respected secondary education, dedicated secondary education journal. Um Right. Okay, well thank you to that journal, very much indeed. So 60% of the points so far. So point one was stop giving practical advice in order to make room to give practical advice. Well, to listen to their questions, presumably about the practicalities though. Yeah, about the practicalities. Yeah, so that makes sense. Number two get into those primary schools, don't just ignore them. But then give them the information that they say in point one they don't want. I think that's largely what it says, yeah. Yeah. Uh and three, make it so visible, shared, and positive. So get some of the young people who've from the secondary school who've recently been through transition to um to talk to them. Right. Yeah, I mean it it it certainly is groundbreaking. Number four, build skills, not just knowledge. I mean, this list is so awful. I can't even laugh at it. No, it's terrible it's terrible, isn't it? Well, uh it's nearly over if that helps. Build skills, not just knowledge. So it says successful transition depends less on what pupils know and more on what they can do. More on what they can do. So that's so skills over knowledge. So rather than talking to them, show them what to do. Show them what to do. Which we were told not to do in point one. Point one. But then we were told to talk to them in point one, stop showing them what to do and start listening to them. But in point four. Point four, we need to show them what to do and stop listening to them. Yes. Right. So is that right? Yeah. So point one was stop showing them what to do and show them what to do. Essentially, yes. Yeah. Uh point two. But don't whatever you do, show them what to do. Well, talk to them about what to do. Talk to them what to do, don't show them what to do. Don't show them what to do, talk to them about what to do. Number two is tell them what to do. Tell them what to do. But in via the primary front to showing them what to do, and we were told not to do. Number three was get other children to tell them what to do. Which is groundbreaking. Yeah, we've never heard of that. So that's what we call, I suppose now, lived experience, isn't it? Yeah. Lived experience. I mean, I've heard of something called the Buddy Sister. I don't know anyway, definitely. Uh yes, probably well, that was around when I transitioned from primary to secondary in 1987. It's still there today. Uh so yeah. In fact, they're probably still using the same program. I would imagine so. And number four, show them what to do, don't tell them what to do. And number five, there's a lot of there's some contradiction. There is quite a lot of contradiction from what I can gather. Anyway, number five, actively engage the primary school in transition. Now, number two, I just remind you, number two was work with primary schools. Yeah. And number five is actively engage primary schools. So engage well, in order to work with the primary schools, number two, you'd have to engage with them, wouldn't you? So fundamentally, right, what we've got here. Could you sum it up? Because it's so complicated. I want you to sum it up for me, please. I think I've got it. Well the whole the whole uh Yeah, yeah. I went and I want it, you know, we want this in a in a bullet point guide for people. So all this verbosity. Basically, it's from what I can tell, it's don't show them what to do, listen to their listen to what they're worried about. Then go into the primary schools and tell them what to do. Yes. Then get other children to tell them what to do. Yeah. Then show them what to do. Yes. Then go back and work with the primary schools again. Because the work tell them what to do. Because the work you did in point two with the primary schools wasn't enough. So Well, obviously it didn't work, did it? So we gotta do go back again. So the five-point guide is essentially Show them what to do. No, don't show them what to do. Don't show them what to do. Oh god, I've gone wrong, you see. This is this is where it can get confusing. So don't show them Don't show them what to do. Tell them what to do with the with the help of the primary school. Yeah. Work with the primary school. Both tell the students what to do. Yes, both of us need to do that. Yeah. Then primary and secondary, tell them. Tell them what to do. Having shh not shown them. Not shown them. We've not shown them, we've told them. Yes. And then we need to get other children, older to tell them. But not to show them. Not just to tell them. Just to tell them. And then show them what to do. Show them what to do. And then do it all again. It seems so. I tell you what, that really is a sort of lonely planet's guide to transition, isn't it? It's because it's this difficult time. Now, fortunately, and I did mention this at the start of this, there's a free resource.

The Free Resource That Arrived Late

SPEAKER_00 43:41

Well, this probably, in in all fairness, because we've been a bit sort of um dismissive, I've dismissive. The resource could bring it all together, couldn't it? Because it's a practical way to bring this to life, is through it's a national transition programme. Yeah. And it's called We're Off to Big School. And it's a live event. It's being streamed in the pa and Unfortunately, it's happened. So it's a one-off. But it's okay because you can still you can still access so you can't participate. If unfortunately, we've come too late with this. So you can't participate in it now because it was a live event that happened on June the 17th, which is in the past. So the free resource is a live event that isn't live. No. Not anymore. A recording of a formerly live event. In fairness, at the time this was written, it was a forthcoming live event. It's my fault I've got to this too late, unfortunately. Yeah, and shame on you. Shame on me. But it was a live event bringing your six pupils together nationwide. Nationwide. Yeah, for a confidence boosting, myth busting, and excitement building experiences they prepare for secondary school. And the reason this is going to be cut through and hit different, as the kids like to say it. I I can't stand that. No, I can't stand it either, but yeah. The reason this is going to hit it is because it's supported by well-known figures. Celebrities, right? Right. Such as Joe Wicks, remember him from COVID? Yes, I do. Did a lot of he's you know, healthy man. And don't understand what he's got to do with transition, but you know, he's he's involving himself, okay? Yeah. Helping transition. Probably getting to do some exercise or something. Yeah, yeah, okay. He's good at that, isn't he? Yeah. And some of the gladiators. Well, I mean, they're great role models, I think. Well, it does say some of the gladiators are alongside other role models. So doesn't mention who they are. Yeah. Uh helping to engage pupils and reinforce positive messages around confidence resilience while being spread the word with your feeder primary schools. So that's what we can do. Consider this spreading the word. Yeah. Well, we spread the word about a form. So it's we we we're a bit late spreading the word. But well, they they can watch the pre-record. They could watch the well, yeah, they can't, they can't, it's still available and you can still show it to, you know. Although that does seem like it's pitched at primary teachers rather than secondary teachers. So this is this article was pitched at secondary teachers saying how we can make it easier. But all we can do with this free resource is spread the word. We can't um can't use it ourselves. So, final thoughts. What on the list? Yeah. Awful. It's terrible, but it does seem waste of paper, I would say. There are some final thoughts I forgot to share with you actually from the list, if that's uh of any interest. Oh god, there's not an addendum, is there? It's just a sentence, so we're all right. Uh it says the best transitions don't just prepare people for secondary school, they help them look forward to it. If we get this right, September doesn't feel like a disruption. It feels like a natural next step. It is the natural next step. What's good is that there are some related articles as well for future reference. Right. One of them involves twelve tips. So thank you, lucky stars. I picked the one with five. Yeah, I think I think I feel very grateful to you that you brought the five. Although there was another one that says three areas to focus on to support your seven transitions. That might have been better. That might have been better. Because to be honest with you, there was there was less than three in the in the list of five. Did you

Our Own Primary To Secondary Memories

SPEAKER_00 46:56

I mean have you got any memories of your own transition to finish off on? I seem to remember somebody doing the usual getting the Bunts and Burner to go green uh thing. I did have a reasonably good time at Witch's House, because I don't want to I don't want to in any way malign that all the wonderful time at Eggless Noeth primary school, but all I'm saying was I don't think they exactly sold it on the uh on the primary secondary transition at the time. No, um was I feel my secondary school was slightly oversold to me. I think that's worse. It is worse, but I mean again I I I don't think back necessarily badly of my secondary school, but I'm quite sure this the transition was a was a somewhat of an overselling of what was in store for us. And and the re uh you know something closer to the truth might have been better. But I do remember that they set us homework for the summer holidays. Oh yes, yeah, I I remember that as well. An awful booklet came across. Yeah, I didn't appreciate that. The various things that had to be done. And I always thought the people who were going to other schools, because most people went from my primary to which it's high. Yeah. Obviously, those who didn't didn't have to do the booklet. Yeah. So that was that was well, I I what I remember is we we were set this homework. Hmm and at the time, because I'm the eldest child in my family as well. So at the time my parents took that very seriously, and you will do this homework, and it sort of ruined my last summer holiday, really, from primary. And then I don't really remember anyone particularly looking at it when I got to secondary. Um nobody ever used to believe me. I think I've mentioned this before, but as I said, our our head teacher was Robin Hood. I think that is probably the place we need to end.

Goodbye

SPEAKER_00 48:35

I think it's time to say goodbye. Bye bye. Bye bye.