The Ultimate Guide That Forgot Step Four

A checklist can look impressively professional and still be completely useless. This week's proof is an "ultimate guide to organising school trips" that can't even keep track of its own Step Four.

Before we get there, though, we wander off into the story of Jack Wild, the Artful Dodger from Oliver!, and the way celebrity encounters slowly evolve into family folklore until someone is convinced their dad was one casting decision away from Hollywood. From there, it's school productions, choir memories with Harry Secombe, and why the smallest performances often become the stories people remember for decades.

Eventually—unlike some recent episodes—we remember this is supposed to be a podcast about secondary education. After a brief disagreement over this week's postcard, we set about dismantling the list.

This week's victim is a school trips checklist that promises to tell teachers everything they need to know. Instead, it:

• Skips crucial steps,
• Muddles the order completely, and
• Somehow makes one of the most complicated parts of teaching sound like assembling flat-pack furniture.

We pick apart the advice, discuss what actually goes into organising a successful school trip—from risk assessments and parent communication to medical information and logistical chaos—and ask whether some educational guidance is written by people who've ever organised a trip in the first place.

If you've ever planned a school trip, spent hours chasing consent forms, or found yourself shouting, "That's not even the next step!", this episode is for you.

Leave us a review, and while you're there, tell us about your best (or worst) school trip memory.

• Email: bandjcdb@gmail.com
• Website: benandjamescoulddobetter.com

Transcript

Cold Open And Celebrity Tease

SPEAKER_01 0:18

Okay, so we're recording. We're live at the Apollo. I think that's quite some time off, don't you? That's been live at the Apollo. Right. Anyway, uh I am going to say something to you now, and that'll be the start of the episode. Okay. I quite like the bit about the Apollo. So you actually know some celebrities, Ben. You've met quite a few. I have met quite a few, yeah. I I I would say I know far less. But I I have met quite a few. The good news is I'm not going to ask you to list those celebrities or talk about the ones you know and the ones you've met. Um and I've I've met a few, not as many as you've met, but I've met a few celebrities in my time.

Jack Wilde And The Artful Dodger

SPEAKER_01 0:55

That's great. But I'd like to talk about one celebrity in particular. I'd like to talk about a man called Jack Wilde. Have you have you heard you're not familiar with Jack Wilde? No. Well, you might be familiar with the film Oliver, the Lionel Bart musical that was made. The Lionel Bart. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And you might remember there's a character in the Lionel Bart. Well, in fact, the the Dickens novel, there's a character. I mean, Lionel Bart didn't just add a character. This character does come from the original novel. This character called the The Artful Dodger. Right. Yeah. I do know the character. And the actor who played the artful dodger in the film adaptation of Lionel Bart's Oliver was Jack Wilde. Was this the same edition with the famous Ron Moody? That's right. That's the one. That's the one. That version. So Jack Wilde, the artful dodger. And wasn't there an appearance by um the wonderful actor who had something of a drink problem as well? Yes, yeah, he played Bill Sykes, uh Oliver Oliver Reed. Oliver Reed. That version, yeah. So you've familiar with that one. I'm very familiar with it. And the person who played the Artful Dodger.

SPEAKER_00 1:57

Who will buy my wonderful?

SPEAKER_01 1:59

So I knew this would be a vocative view. This would be uh So uh I'm I'm pleased about that. That uh you know this is a pico poco d'ortho. Yeah, take it. Anyway, Jack Wilde. Do you know him? I don't know Jack Wilde, no. Well, I don't know him. You don't know him. He's got a brother called well, I mean, he's dead now, Jack Wilde's died. Uh he died on the 1st of March 2006 when he's 53 years old. That's very young to die. Very young, yeah. He had a bit of a substance problem. He's also in um Robin Hood Prince of Thieves. Right. Um it's a fairly minor character. Was that the one where that the the dreadful Brian Adams song was? That's that very one, yeah. Yeah, that one, yeah. Well I say dreadful, I mean it got him 14 weeks at number one or whatever. Yeah, I mean give us a little little bit of that.

SPEAKER_00 2:48

Uh everything I do I do it for you.

SPEAKER_01 2:53

Anyway, absolutely. So Jack Wilde was in that that film as well, but a fairly minor, one of the one of the merry men. But he's most famous for his role as the artful dodger in the film Oliver 1968. And he was he received an Academy Award nomination. Is this going anywhere? Best supporting actor. Yeah, well no, just uh so Jack Wilde. I mean, I've just I didn't know why you'd suddenly become obsessed. All will become clear. Right. All will become clear. Yeah. Uh he's not written a list, has he? He's not written a list, no. We've not we've not got to the list yet. This is No, no, we're way off that. So he was uh discovered with his brother, Arthur Wilde, who also had something of a career, not as big as Jack's, playing football in the park and a talent. They were playing football in the park and they were discovered. They were discovered that you know, literally were approached by a talent scout and and then it wasn't. Doesn't write, does it? No. What was he doing watching them playing football and just a she. It was a she. Okay. You know. It was June Collins, the mother of Phil Collins, actually, if you're interested. June Collins, while they were playing football in the park, he was discovered by theatrical agent June Collins, mother of Phil Collins, and they were involved, they were they were both enrolled at the Barbara Speaks stage school. Well, I know of the Barbara Speaks stage school. There you go, and then Jack went on to star in Oliver. Anyway, the reason the reason for the reason for me mentioning Jack Wilde. It's quite a long preamble. Well, it's only a long preamble, if you keep interrupting. It will be it'll be a lot shorter. I think it'll relatively long, all on its own, but do carry on. I'm trying to try it. I I will try it. So the reason I raised the uh

Rambier’s Rewritten Origin Story

SPEAKER_01 4:20

the reason I raised Jack Wilde and Arthur Wild. Arthur Wilde's not irrelevant to the story is my my father, Rambier, he of the knotted handkerchief, was friends with Arthur Wilde. Right. And and did meet Jack on a few occasions. Now that's that's literally Rambier's claim to fame in this. But he's told he regaled us with this tale as we as we were youngsters. And my sister He dined out on it, as it was a little, a little. And um my sister has also my sister then tended to dine out on a little more. And so the story, according to my sister, is that Arthur Wilde, Jack Wilde, and Rambier Burke were playing football in the park. That's how she's reimagined it, is it? Literally reimagined it. And we're approached by June Collins, to mother of Phil Collins. Yeah. And uh Wow. But for the role of a Tyson Rambier Singh Burke could have been the artful dodger.

SPEAKER_00 5:16

Wow.

SPEAKER_01 5:17

Um, this would come as a surprise to most people who've spent any time with my father. Because whatever you think of Jack Wilde's performances, the boy. The boy could certainly hold a tune. And Rambier, on the other hand. Rambier is not known for his uh singing prowess. Well, I don't want to cast dispersions on Rambier, I never heard him sing, but I from what you tell me, he doesn't sound like he was gonna give Ali Jones a run for his money, anyway. There is one person who really enjoys Rambier's singing, really enjoys it. And that person goes by the name of Rambier Singberg. I knew you were gonna say that, uh to be honest. So, no, my father's musical career and film career was cut short uh the day that June Collins didn't meet him because he wasn't there. He absolutely wasn't anywhere near there when that happened. But uh, you know. I like that story though. I I like to believe that's the truth, even though it's not the truth. Well, I mean, to have been that close to such a to such a hit uh film and indeed. No, and I mean I know because

Our School Theatre Glory Days

SPEAKER_01 6:15

you've obviously you've enjoyed um something of a theatrical career yourself. You've been in a few places. Well, I mean I wouldn't call it a theatrical career. I did I was sort of plucked from obscurity in primary school to play Father Christmas. Right. And I think uh I I did I did milk the role, which led on to a role as king in another production at Egglois Noah's primary school, uh Glanning Ant Terrace. So as early as primary school you were you were enjoying these successes, yes, and I think I think uh I think a relatively shy individual shown a microphone and what would have been in those days some sort of modular staging unit. I think it was almost like installing a turbocharger. Once given a taste of it, I think uh the the genie was uh very much never gonna go back into the into the bottle. So some would say they created a monster, uh others would say well probably the same. But you certainly, you know, you you if you were in productions, you were often the leading role, and you were in quite a few things. Now what you know, what you won't know though, because I don't I keep my I tend to hide my light under a bushel, yeah, is that uh I was in a few productions. Well, I'm sure they were just the same. So you would have been sort of BBC as well, and New Theatre, Sherman Theatre, um uh youth orchestras. And unfortunately my my career didn't quite hit those heights. No. But I did surpass the work for Ambassing Burke insofar as I did get a part in Oliver.

SPEAKER_00 7:44

Oh right.

SPEAKER_01 7:45

I was in my school's production of Oliver, and it was the Lionel Bart version. We followed that uh so there was You'd have got performing rights for that. Yeah. Uh so I now I didn't play the part of Oliver because I was uh I was uh I was in sixth form when uh so I was a little bit too old. They they cast a younger person in the role of Oliver and a younger person in the role of the artful dodger, so I couldn't couldn't reprise Jack Wilde's role. Bill Sykes went to Oliver That would have been nice to the family though, the family history would be. It would have been nice, yeah. Bill Sykes went to one of my friends, uh one of my good friends actually played Bill Sykes. Um Fagan went to another person in my school year, but not to me. So who did you play? Well, yeah. So uh Oliver, no, Artful Dodger. No, I've just said because I was too old for the role of Artful Dodger. Right. Nice to see you as well. But you couldn't yeah, no, but you could have sorry, I was yeah, I wasn't listening. You weren't listening, no. Um You could have put a beard on and done the wrong moody. Yeah, no, some so that went to someone in my year, but not to me. Uh as I say, the role of Bill Sykes went to went to my friend. So I mean I mean it didn't get you playing Nancy, obviously. No, I didn't play Nancy, but no, I don't want to brag. Well Because you forgot you've forgotten one of the more pivotal roles in. Well, clearly, and I I'm I'm just trying to wrap my brain for the other the other parts. I just thought you didn't know. And then I started going into other musicals. Yeah, no, you've uh you've it's it's oft overlooked, but when I say it, you'll go, oh yeah, cool. I played the part of first Bow Street Runner. Not second Bow Street Runner. My friend Andrew played that part. I played the part of first Bow Street Runner. Just think about that. What was involved in that role? I mean, it it it doesn't seem overly taxing on the s on the line learning. Uh I can tell you the lines now. Stand back, stand back. Right. Um that's just the first few lines. Obviously, it goes on from there, does it? Well, no. That was all the lines. Uh Andrew, uh my friend who played second Bow Street Runner, then came in with this gentleman seems to know the lady. This gentleman seems to know the lady. Could we reenact that now? Because I will play the part of sorry, Andrew was playing Second Bow Street Runner. Second Bow Street Runner. Um, and can you just remind me again of the line? This gentleman seems to know the lady. Can we just do it? So I came in. Well, you are not going to say I came in. No, I'm just giving you the same. So the there was there's some there was some so Oliver's Read the stage directions, if you like. Yeah, Oliver's basically just to bring you up to Oliver's just robbed Mr. Brown, though, I think it is. He's still he's still on his his wallet and there's there's all of a commotion, and everyone's getting all very excited. And then I'm first because the Bow Street runners obviously they're the police. So I walk in and I command the scene, I take control of the scene and I say, Stand back, stand back. This gentleman seems to know the lady. And that's essentially it, yeah. That's what we said. And then I mean it's quite a pivotal scene, isn't it? Yeah. And then what we did was I mean, if they cut that from the show, it would it would ruin it. Yeah. Oliver then runs away. Yeah. And we chase him. So there's and there's a sort of comedy chase scene. It's almost like a Brian Rick's farce. Is it in this door, out that door? It's pretty much that. And and they because my school spared no expense, there was some strobe lighting as we did it. It brought the house down. No, I bet it did. Night after night. I bet it did. So uh, you know, I know you've enjoyed your successes on the stage, but uh well, I mean I do that. I well, I applaud you first first of all for that. You know, it's really quite uh humbling in a way, I think, to hear of that a part of that gravity being taken on onto the shoulders of somebody so so relatively young. You know, because some people think, oh, six four, I'm really old. No, no, no, no, no. Still developing as as a as a young man. You're not you weren't a man, you were a young man. And I think to take that on and not just to take it on, oh yeah, I took it on, I took on the part of m the bow first Bow Street Runner. First Bow Street Runner. I didn't you didn't just take on the part, you became the part. Well, in many ways, it l it lives on to this day. Yeah, I think so. I mean when I look at you, I think first Bow Street Runner. That's all anyone thinks. It's all anybody thinks, you know. How dare anybody say? How dare anybody reduce you to you know who'd have thought you you'd have been funny? This wasn't a funny part. You weren't playing a funny part. There's there was some serious gravitas to my performance. Is there I was method acting, if truth be told, but uh although some would say, well, has he got it on merit with the connections with Rambius and Burke, you know, and the original 1968 um production, which I think was a wonderful interpretation uh by Lionel Bart of the original Dickens 19 sorry, 1838 uh novel. Yeah, uh it wasn't I mean you're you're right to question actually because it wasn't my first time playing a part in Well I was gonna ask you actually. I was gonna ask you, did was that the first time uh that you played a part? Well, no. Was there something before that and did it lead on to anything? So sorry for the so many questions to be sort of thrown at you at once, but Well, I mean I could uh you know Was it the first No no, I was in I was in uh two other school productions in secondary school. I played the part of Snake Eyes in the musical Bugsy Malone. So I played, yeah, I played the part of Snake Eyes, uh, which is which is a fairly much a non-speaking part. Snake Eyes. I think I said sorry, boss. But I had a much more extended speaking part. My very first role in in a secondary school production, I actually did have quite a lot of lines because I played the part of the Oz Army in The Wizard of Oz. Uh and then you would say the the Oz Army can't just be one person, but that's the joke. It is one person. There's this is like a load of sergeants, and one one person's actually the and so that was quite an extended because I would have just been year eight at that time, so that was quite an extended speaking part. So at that time, people might because it was quite funny and people laughed, and people might have thought I'd go on to have bigger parts in later musicals, but in fact uh the opposite happened. Uh I got smaller parts, and in fact, I sort of gave up after Bugsy Ban and I wasn't interested because I thought, well, actually, I I'm not gonna get a decent part. What's the bother? What's the point in trying? Um listening to that, it it seems like you you were probably onto something there. Yeah, but then I went back into it for the for the Oliver because uh I was a little bit older and I saw it as an opportunity to meet girls, was not successful, by the way. It it that that didn't pan out. But um I do it does remind me of um of the earlier days again. Not not the great

Harry Secombe And TV Illusions

SPEAKER_01 14:20

heights of obviously playing the king or or playing Father Christmas. If you like primary school blockbuster roles um that they were. I was in the choir of the Metropolitan Cathedral of St. David. We were mustered to various rehearsals and told we had to we had to really nail these sort of uh pieces of English Tudor church music because we were going to be uh on Highway with Harry Seacum. Sir Harry Seacomb. Sir Harry Seacum. Well, he wasn't Sir Harry Seacum in those days. Uh he went on to become Sir Harry Seacum. Those early myths of television were were busted for me uh by this because we went into a little studio at BBC Ponk. No, it wasn't yeah, it was BBC, even though it was an ITV production. We were using the BBC Studios. We recorded the sound. Then uh we were re-mustered back to the cathedral and we mimed uh singing uh as uh along with Sa Harry who was there and uh signed a few of our uh editions of the Oxford Book of Tudor Anthems at the end. I I didn't know who Harry Seacum was. You brought us full circle actually for that story because of course Sa Harry Seacum was in the 1968 production of Oliver. He was playing the part of Mr. Bumble. Of course, yes, I've completely forgotten that. Yes. So should we get on with the show? Oh yeah, let's do that. Yeah. Yeah, that sounds like a good idea. Okay, so I'm uh Mr. Slade, so I'm here. Is James Burke here, please? Yeah. Me dare, yeah. That's not a language. Me dare, yeah, me dare ya. I think you'll find that Google Translate counts that as a language. It's Jamaican patois. Okay, right. Well, I'm terribly sorry to any Jamaican listeners we've got. Well, I think I I'm the one to recognize I'm the one that should offer an apology to any Jamaican listeners, but uh it's uh Google Translate translated that and it said ya me dare ya. Ya me de ya. Thank you. Um

Anatomy Of A Goose Postcard

SPEAKER_01 16:22

which leads us nicely on to uh this week's postcard. This week's postcard is that it says Anatomy of a Goose. Right. And it's a picture of a goose. Yeah. And then various sort of labels. Um is it meant to be comic or I think it possibly is. Right. So it says it's pointing to its eyes and it's calling them shenanigan scanners. Right. It's got a knife in its bill. Right. And it's calling that a knife holder. Pointing to the wings and it's describing them as wings of doom. Its rear end is being described as a menacing rump. Its chest, where I imagine where its voice box is, is being described as a honk box. And its uh its feet are described as chaos flippers. Anatomy of a goose. Yes, you've explained that quite well. I know we've talked about this a lot, but I and you'll say, they're not meant to give to anybody, they're meant to just go on the wall. Why would you put that on the wall? Well, I wouldn't. There is no value to these postcards, yet you can buy them. I bought them. You can buy them. Yeah. Why would anyone buy them? I bought them for this show. I wouldn't buy them any other. You bought them to prove that there is no discernible reason why anyone would. They are entirely tasteless. They are entirely without value, yet they exist. Yeah, and on that basis, I reject it. And and feel free to reject it as you have all preceding postcards. But what I like about it is that it's clearly supposed to be funny. Yeah, I suppose so. And it isn't at all funny. No. And I in a man of time somebody's the effort they've gone through. That's why I I quite like things like that where someone's tried to make something of worth and what they've achieved. It's worthless. It's absolutely worthless. And that's what brings me pleasure, but it brings you no pleasure, and it brings me no pleasure that you have no pleasure. And I think you know, going back to our reluctant listener Matt, that's what he thinks of this whole podcast series. But the whole podcast, not just the postcard bit. Yeah, yeah, the whole thing. You can't blame the postcard bit for Matt's working. The whole thing is just a complete just a total waste of time. Yeah. Almost as if two men are having a midlife crisis. So, anyway, I suppose you better get on with the show. I think we've said that. This is us getting on with the.

SPEAKER_00 18:42

Oh right.

SPEAKER_01 18:43

Sometimes you get confused about the running. I know you don't like the format, but sometimes you embrace it so heartily, even out of reluctance, that uh that you uh who would have thought there'd be creative differences

Podfade Maths And Trip Season

SPEAKER_01 18:55

this early on in the in the podcast? Like, we're not gonna make it to the uh I'll have to dial down. No, no, we're not gonna suffer from second generation podfade. Well, we've we've passed that because I don't know if you're aware, and I don't like to count the episodes. You'd stop me doing that. But this is actually episode 15, so we've gone through two phases of podfade and survived two because we s episode seven, remember. That's when podfades has been survived. Yeah, and we've done two rounds of seven, two rounds of seven. And we're we're already commencing on our third round of seven. So we'll like raps, aren't they? We'll be triple Podfade survivors if we get to episode twenty one. So uh I think to be a triple survivor is it would be fantastic. Substantial. Substantial. That's um have you read Ghosty Costa yet? Sorry. I haven't read Ghosty Costas, I really must. It's on my to-do list, perhaps during the summer holidays, which are just around the corner. But before we get to the summer holidays, of course, we're in that sort of part of the year now where it's a bit more fun, isn't it, being a teacher? It's a bit more fun at this time of year, it's a bit more relaxed, a bit more easygoing. We start having things like school trips. Oh right, yeah, yeah. Yeah. And uh, but of course, it's all well and good for me and you on the school trip. We just kind of go along for the ride, don't we? We're just sort of we just hop on the bus while our poor friend Matt pulls his hair out. Oh, yeah, he does. Because he's the trip organiser. Yeah. Oh my goodness, yeah. And we just take the mick and just kind of go in, we just go along for the ride. But if we were organizing a school trip, well, I think you have organised school trips, haven't you? In a matter of speaking, yeah. And I think you you found them, as I think many people do, an administrative nightmare.

The Ultimate School Trip Guide

SPEAKER_01 20:25

Yes, unless you can get somebody else to do the admin for you. It is it is an administrative nightmare, yeah. So what I've printed off today are a list. Oh, this could help me for the next time, because I do have a couple of trips to book for September and October. Right. And this is We need to get in early because those tickets are going. You're gonna struggle with some of the advice I'm gonna give you, I think. But uh I have got the this is literally called right, this is gonna be this may not prepare you for October or or beyond, but it will prepare you for your life of being a trip organiser in the long term. Yeah, because this is the ultimate guide to organising school trips. Right. Ultimate being ultimate the daddy. There's there's no better guide than this. This literally sells itself as the ultimate guide to organising school trips because it's it's produced by a travel company. Right, right. So they're the experts. They are the experts, and they say we've been helping busy teachers like you to arrange school trips for 40 years. Forty years. Four decades. That's a level of expertise you can't buy, really. No. And what a great thing that it is that we have companies that are this long established, yeah, that level of longevity, who must have in four decades amassed. What basically what they've forgotten about re arranging a school trip uh is more than we know in in between us, isn't it? It absolutely is. So imagine never mind what they forgot. What they know. What they know. Uh so hopefully this this guide will be useful to you and to anyone who's got to organise a school trip. Well, I've actually got my spiral bar notepad out so that I can take a note of So step one. Right, step one. How many steps are there? There's there's twelve, I think. Right, so this is comprehensive. Comprehensive, yeah. Okay. So step one. It's always a good sign, isn't it? I can't read it. Step one. I don't even know what it is. Step one. Yeah. Think about your trip. Uh yeah. Yeah, I'm trying to. I'm trying to. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 22:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 22:29

So this is where it's. Just think about it. Well, it's got some more. Is this is a sort of self-actuation actualization exercise where if I think about it, it will happen. No, there are obviously there's 12 steps. So uh step one is think about your trip. Yeah. And it says you should start thinking about your trip around 12 to 18 months before you depart. 12 to 18 months before we depart. Well, on a theatre trip. 12 to 18 months. Well, because that allows you time for your planning. You're lucky if it was 12 to 18 days. It's not 12 to 18 days with you, is it? Um 12 to 18 hours is uh Yeah, it'd be more like it, yeah. If you think about it 12 to 18 months before, you'll have a better chance of securing your preferred dates, transport, accommodation. So sensible. Really sensible this one. It makes it more affordable. Yeah. Time for payment plans for the students. All of that, yeah. So think about it. So it's good advice, actually. Step one, think about your trip. 12 to 18 months. Okay, yeah, I've got that. Yep. Step two, decide whether to use a tour operator. Right, okay. Now I might question whether that doesn't just come under the title, think about your trip. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So think about your trip. Then, once you've given it a lot of thought. So you think, oh, um, Hounslow. We'll go to Hounslow. We're gonna do some bark rubb-ins in Hounslow.

SPEAKER_00 23:51

Do I need a tour operator?

SPEAKER_01 23:53

Well, no, you've you've you've done that too early. Yeah, yeah. You did that on step one. Step one is just think about your trip. Step two, decide whether you want to use a tour operator. Need to keep the two separate. Because you could organise your trip yourself, but there's many reasons why it's useful and makes sense to use a specialist school tour operator. And then they just say in brackets, like us. Right. Okay. So this is this is not somewhere pushing their services. No, no, no. They just it's just good advice, helpful advice. Yeah, it could be could and they're not saying yeah, it could be any tour operator as well, couldn't it? Could they not say use them, they're just saying like them. Yeah. So they do tours, they well, they've got four years' experience with it. Oh yeah, of course, that's right. Yeah. Right. I thought they were just writing us a list to help us. Yeah, but not just to help you, also. But they say if you use a tour operator, they say, you know, make sure make make sure make you know, avoids the trip taking over your life. Yes, yes. Nothing will get lost in translation. No. And you will feel supported every step of the way. And that's what I like if I'm if I'm being honest with you. I'm a man who likes to be supported every step of the way. Okay, so number three, get your school trip approved. Right. Because wouldn't so I think about it. Think about it in isolation for a year and a half. Yeah. 18 months out, I think about it. Yeah. Then I take a literal and would it be metaphorical break? An actual no, just an actual, a literal break.

SPEAKER_00 25:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 25:18

Then I go, ooh, what about a tour operator? I I I might then just think, hmm, do I need to get approval? So that's number three. Okay, right. So I'm just processing it through my mind. Right, so you've got your trip approved. When would you want the approval though? Because 18 months out to think about T minus 18 months for thinking about it. If we're doing a Gantt chart. Yeah. Well, um T minus eighteen months for the thinking about it. When's the when do we talk about the tour operator? Somewhere, well, you've thought about the tour operator. 17 months? I don't to be honest, it's not specified that as being. I'm asking you too much, I don't know. Yeah, you are asking, because I'm just going by the same list that you're three seeking approval, but that's a little bit further down the Gantt chart. So step three, yeah, you've got your short approval. Now, these are the things you're going to be asked when you're seeking approval. What's the value of your trip? Yeah. Yeah. How will you keep those students safe? And how reliably is your chosen tour operator? Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 26:08

Well, actually, I I I don't think I've ever thought that.

SPEAKER_01 26:12

No. But the person you're seeking approval from will think that.

SPEAKER_00 26:16

Well, I don't think they will actually.

SPEAKER_01 26:18

It says it on the list. Alright, well, if it says it on the list, then that's right. Okay, so we've just done step three, right?

The Missing Step Four Problem

SPEAKER_01 26:22

So um step five. Yeah. No, listen. We've just done step three. Step three. Step five. Comes next. So where's step four? Now what's happened here is because I checked because I thought where's step four? Have I printed it? Sometimes when I print things out, because it's off the internet, something sometimes obscures some of the right sometimes. You can get a little advert pops up or whatever. Yeah, it could have been a pop-up. But it wasn't that, because what's happened here is there's a list, all of these steps are listed at the top, the titles, if you like, and step four, title of step four, in the original in the sort of like list at the top, yeah, is the same as what they're describing as step five here. So if you go through this list, it looks like it's a 13-step list. Because there's a step 13, but there's actually only 12 steps because for some reason they've got themselves a little bit confused in the kind of so there's about confused between four and five. They've missed out just they've missed out the four. Four, but there's not a step four they've missed out. Step four is step five. Step five, what they're calling step five. It's step four. Really confusing. So we're gonna be out of sync for now, but we've got to go with what it says, and it says step five. So step five. So remember, you've you've thought about your trip, you've We just put that down to experience. Maybe step four was just a bit more thinking. It well, but possibly. But you've thought about your trip, you've then had some more thinking about whether to use a tour operator, then you've got your trip approved. So step five is obviously book your trip. I mean Yeah, yeah, I think we we can take that as well. Although it's not it's not stupid, is it? Except it should be step four. That's that's what's that's the only thing that's stupid. The only thing that's stupid about this is it should have been step four. But step five, book your trip, so that's fine. So it just uh I mean it doesn't even give you any sort of extra. I don't think we need any extra on booking a trip, do we? It just says, you know, make a well it no, it does actually does give you a little bit of guidance. It says uh to the way to book a trip is to provisionally book it and then sort of formally book it. Right. So so phone phone at the the the the let's say the theatre and go hello or want to provisionally book yeah and they go okay. Yeah. And then I say, Can I put the phone down now? And they go, Yes, that's okay. And then I phone them back and I go, Hello, you know me, I was just on with a provisional booking. Yeah. Well they get, can I book, please? So I think that does come later, the final booking. So it what it should have said, step five or step four, it should have been called step four. Yeah. We should have established that. And it should have been provisionally book your trip should have been the title because it's it said go ahead and book your trip as the title, but then it's actually clarified, it just means provisionally book it. Right. Because it's really there's some other things to do. I have to say to this tour operator, that's really confusing. Well, it's a little confusing because I'm still we've got to speak truth to power here. I think that is floundering around looking for a step four I can't find, and then I've been told to book the trip, and I've gone ahead and booked it. And then you realise it was only a provision. Provisional booking. There's the difference between the pencil and the pen in the diary, isn't it? It very much is because we've we've clearly got to go through these next few steps. So step six, and you'll you'll understand why you can't just book it till you've done step

Parents Admin And The Sales Pitch

SPEAKER_01 29:17

six. Yeah. Because step six is get the parents on board. Right. Because if they're not up for sending their children on this trip, well then you've you've wasted the school's money, haven't you?

SPEAKER_00 29:26

Yeah, how are they suggesting you get parents on board?

SPEAKER_01 29:30

That's an interesting one. Uh well, there's some, you know, you've got to answer their questions. The parents will have qu they parents will have questions. And these It depends on the trip, doesn't it? If they if they're going to the theatre in the evening, they won't have any questions. They will have these questions. Right. Okay. And these questions are why should I send my child on the trip? Right. How has the trip been organised? Well, fortunately, you've got a lot of thinking time to you know share with them on that one. Yeah. Will my child's medical and dietary requirements be catered for? I presume one of the other questions they've got is has this been provisionally booked or formally booked? That's not one of the questions, but it reasonably could be. And how are we going to keep in touch? Is the yeah. They're the they're the only questions their parents will have, though. Well, they won't have any other question. No other questions, no. Just because those they have covered every single base there. Yeah. So there's not gonna be I let's not hear anything more about any more any other questions. But the good news is is that um in order to help you to to achieve this, yeah. Um this company have provided a PowerPoint template for you to use. Oh, oh, good. Because and a sample school letter trip. Right. I wouldn't have had a clue how to write that. No, but they've done it for you. That's really, really thoughtful of them. Not not specifically for the trip you're organizing, just a sample. But nonetheless, okay, so step seven. Seven. Mm-hmm. You've spoken to the parents, you've effectively launched the trip. Yes. So step seven is launch the trip. Yeah, I presume in talking to them we're kind of launching it, aren't we? I would have said so, but look, it says right, okay, but there's other things. You won't get it. And you can't really, you know. Here's some things You can't launch a trip you haven't thought about or got permission for before spoken to the parent about it. No. So fair enough, fair enough. Uh create a buzz around the trip, it says. Uh if you've struggled to get numbers in the past, that's you know, you might need to kind of do something to promote it. Yeah. And plan some fundraising activities, and unless you don't need to, of course, because it's Okay, so you've done all of those important things. Mm-hmm. Step eight, which is really step seven. You now need to start the trip admin. Right. Yeah. Yeah. I think there's actually quite a bit of admin up till this point, if you're doing it properly, isn't there? It just well, it says start. You you've already had to state the case to the parents, which will have meant communicating with them. We've we've got to have the the school's got to have been on board. We need to have provisionally booked. There's quite a lot of admins taking place around. We're not starting the admin now, are we? Step eight, start the admin. Step eight, start the admin. Which includes confirming your booking. Right. Okay, yes. Yes. And um using they've got some helpful things that would help you do the admin. So using them as well. Step two services they could provide. Yeah. There won't be any charge for that, will they? If you book a trip with them, I'm sure it's probably included. Um I think they do the trip for free as well. They probably do the trip for free, so it's fine. It's nice, they help like this. They're very helpful people. Step nine, plan the finer details of your trip. Right, so not just a broad brush. Not a broad brush, no, just a f you know. So that's about six to eight months before departure. You need to start. Six to eight months before we can we go to the theatre. We're doing it. Do you know what? I think this list is for not for a trip to the theatre. It feels like this is a list of the. But it the thing is it doesn't say that. And for the rest. This is titled The Ultimate Guide to Organising School Trips. Yeah, so no d no difference between they've not they've not sort of specified this is for a trip abroad. They've only sort of like it's implied. But anyway, so step nine is plan the finer details of your trip. Do you do you like to know what their suggestion is of a finer detail? Right. There's only one actually. Right. Which is to finalise your passenger list. Right. That's that's that's the finer detail. I I wouldn't have called that fine detail. No. Step ten.

Risk Assessments And Final Arrangements

SPEAKER_01 33:32

I hope you haven't done this already. Well, I don't know yet. I might have done. You've started your admin, you've sought permission, you've done all those things. You've been given permission, remember, to do this. You've you've sought approval. Yeah, totally spoken to the parents and totally. But step ten, yeah. Start your risk assessment. I think the school might have required the risk assessment ahead of all of that. It's possible. I think that might happen actually around step three. Yeah. I think that's when Shortly after thinking about it. Shortly after thinking about it and wondering about a tour operator. You certainly wouldn't be making provisional bookings without a risk assessment, would you? I don't I don't think you would. I think they've got well, anyway, look, let's, you know. Imagine it was a skiing holiday or something like that, and you and you're getting to point ten when you're risk assessing it. Yeah. Bearing in mind kids might die. Uh black runs uh could could lose them, could be an avalanche. Because going back two points, you've actually confirmed your booking. Yeah. Yeah. So right. So now you're in now you're starting your risk assessment. Step eleven make the final arrangements. So that will include finalising your itinerary, finish paying for it, obviously. Yeah. And then host your final parents' evening just to make sure they've really got that PowerPoint didn't cut it earlier, so you've got to do another one. Yeah. Uh with them. Yeah. And complete any remaining risk assessments, of course. So further risk assessments. If you haven't done them, that's the third. But don't forget, do not, whatever you do, risk assess anything until everything else has been done. Right. Now, step 12, which is 13. This no, this is step 12, is listed as step twelve, but isn't it? So there's no 13. There is a 13. This is step twelve, but it's actually step eleven. Right. So this is the last but this is the penultimate one. The penultimate one is sorry, I I hadn't read it before. Step twelve, really eleven, is get ready for your squadron.

SPEAKER_00 35:46

What does what on earth does that mean?

SPEAKER_01 35:55

So everything you've done is nothing to do with getting ready, I don't suppose. No. And then you so you do no getting ready until all of that is done, and then you get ready. So here's what none of the other stuff was about getting anything ready for the trip. This is get getting ready is is 11 stroke twelve. Yes, yes. So that includes get your final info pack out. Okay, I mean I can accept that.

SPEAKER_00 36:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 36:22

Download the app, their app, this company's app that they provide you.

SPEAKER_00 36:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 36:26

Uh they're assuming you've gone with them at this point, I think. Imagine you got this phone, you said no thanks. Um we'll do it ourselves, thank you. Make sure you screw your app. Make sure your students are easy to spot. Head to toe in orange. Something like that, presumably. Yeah, they're all wearing the same clothes. Give them all a banana costume. Pack your bags. Right. Pack your bags. So uh step 13, which is 12, but it's the last step. Yeah, the journey begins. Which doesn't so much sound like a step, so much as so it's nothing to do with the list. It's not, it's just you're on the trip now. That's it. So uh I hopefully you do feel prepared now.

Tom Hanks Kostas And Farewell

SPEAKER_01 37:16

James, just before we go, I'm just you know, you spring things on me. Yeah, yeah. I do, I do, to be fair. That's the uh existing format, subject to change. I just want to spring this on you, and I want you to tell me how you feel about it. Okay. And what action you're gonna take. Right. Let's just think because this whole edition, other than the list there, has been about well, including the list, it's been about enjoying experiences. You know, we started about our sort of time in the theatre and all the rest of it. I think it's it's generous to describe my stories as time in the theatre. I th I thank you for taking it so. How do you respond to a story that follows a san, a gentle Eastern European immigrant, who has escaped a brutal civil war in Bulgaria? I mean, how are you feeling so far? Do you know what I would do in that scenario if I was a San? I'd go see Kostas. Who's that by, by the way? Well, it's it doesn't like to promote it, and uh little known uh sort of guy, but that's um that's Tom Hanks. So on that note, James, and uh hoping that both of us will read this uh by the next time. I think we all wish everyone a very, very good morning, good afternoon, or good evening, depending on when they're listening. If indeed they are. Bye bye, bye bye.